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UFWDA Community Forum  |  Regional Focus - News and Local Events  |  Southwest  |  Topic: Eldorado travel management and DEIS update links « previous next »
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Todd Ockert

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« on: July 13, 2007, 07:07:09 pm »

Received this from the Eldorado Forest.

Hi Everyone,

I am pleased to announce that a Travel Management Update and the Travel Management Draft Environmental Impact Statement are now available on the Eldorado National Forest website. To access the latest project update, including the dates, times and locations of the public information meetings, as well as information on submitting comments, click on the following link:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/route/enf_rdp_v3i1.pdf

To access the Travel Manegement DEIS,  click on this link:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/deis/index.shtml

If you have trouble following any of these links, copy and paste the address into your browser or follow the route designation links on the ENF
website:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/

I look forward to seeing many of you at the public information meetings, Jason


Attached is the pdf file.

Todd
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Todd Ockert

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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2007, 09:24:54 am »

Update

The Eldorado National Forest has announced that their Travel Management Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) is now available on the Eldorado National Forest website.

Keep in mind that this plan will limit ALL vehicle use to designated roads, trails and areas.

To access the Travel Manegement DEIS, click on this link:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/deis/index.shtml

Information on the DEIS as well as dates, times and locations of public information meetings are here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/route/enf_rdp_v3i1.pdf

The Eldorado NF is home to world class OHV opportunity. BRC will be working with our partners in California on a thorough review of the Preferred Alternative, as well as other Alternatives the agency developed.

Stated simply, this is the last chance to really make effective route specific comments. BRC strongly urges anyone who recreates on the Eldo to review the plan and send in comments.
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Terrill Sligar

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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2007, 05:40:52 pm »

Forest Service meeting tonight Juy 31st 7-9 pm
Lake Natomas Inn, 702 gold lake dr, Folsom Ca

To discuss route designation alternatives

If at all possible please attend, wheelin,hunting, fishing,prospecting and any other outdoor recreation depends on it Shocked

TERIOD
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Todd Ockert

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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 10:42:00 am »

I took this from the Pirate4X4 board for here.

The Eldorado National Forest is pulling a fast one on us... hiding in plain sight, meeting the letter of the law, and closing off THOUSANDS of miles of routes to motorized access throughout Alpine, Amador, El Dorado, and Placer counties. That may not seem like a problem, until the Forest Service admits that the vast majority of forest users use these routes to access the forest, or use the routes themselves to recreate with motorized vehicles. This is not just a motorcycle, ATV, and 4x4 issue, these closures will negatively impact sportsmen, fishermen, horsemen, and hikers alike. Kayakers need routes to their put-ins, campers need routes to their campsites, hunters need routes to recover big game. Picnickers and campers who park on spur roads will have to find new places to park, as well -- the Forest is closing most non-loop routes.

All of the listed alternatives in the Draft Environmental Impact Study (DEIS) would decrease the linear mileage of roads and trails that the public has used for decades, and all but the 'no-change' alternative would additionally enact winter closures. Even though there has been an exponential increase in Forest use, Eldorado National Forest is cutting route mileage across the board.

In meeting after meeting, the Forest Service's plan to decrease off-highway vehicle roads and trails is being received poorly by the public -- and it is telling that only a small slice of the public is represented at these meetings, with OHV advocates outnumbering anti-access advocates by nearly 50:1 in Placerville. The bulk of the users are unrepresented, though -- unaware that they may lose fully half of their access. These are the people that must be reached!

The DEIS contains five alternatives to allow public wheeled motor vehicle travel on the Eldorado National Forest
* Alternative A purports to be a "no action" alternative, and the Forest reports that it is based on 2,343.1 miles of roads and trails, but this alternative is based on withdrawal of the Forest's 1990 Travel Plan, with an off-the top reduction of 700 miles of system routes. User groups estimate the true number of miles on the ground to be well in excess of 3200 miles.
* Alternative B allows public wheeled motor vehicle travel on 1,120.8 miles of roads and 240.7 miles of trails. The Forest Service claims that the emphasis of this alternative is to provide a high level of motorized recreation opportunities and access across the Forest.
* Alternative C allows public wheeled motor vehicle travel on 1,064.1 miles of roads and 177.1 miles of trails. The Forest Service claims that the emphasis of this alternative is to provide a high level of motorized recreation opportunities and address resource concerns.
* Alternative D allows public wheeled motor vehicle travel on 844.3 miles of roads and 217.0 miles of trails. The Forest Service claims that the emphasis of this alternative is to provide a balance between providing recreational opportunities and reducing effects to resources.
* Alternative E allows public motor vehicle travel on 751.6 miles of roads and 136.3 miles of trails for public wheeled motor vehicles. The Forest Service claims that the emphasis of this alternative is to provide greater protection of forest resources and increase opportunities for non-motorized recreational activities.
All alternatives but A would additionally implement winter closure on many miles of roads and also limit over-the-snow travel. Del Albright, Friends of the Rubicon Trail Boss, said "This is not a range of alternatives, this is a range of degrees of closure."

Alternative C was the Forest Service's Proposed Action back in 2006, but this DEIS lists Alternative D as the Forest Service's Preferred Alternative.

Reviewers should provide the Forest Service with their comments during the review period of the DEIS. This will enable the Forest Service to analyze and respond to the comments at one time and to use information acquired in the preparation of the final environmental impact statement. For full compliance, review comments must be submitted in compliance with National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). The comments should be specific and should address the adequacy of the statement and the merits of the alternatives discussed. Comments can be delivered to Forest's hotline at 295-5666, send a fax to 621-5297, mail a letter to Forest Supervisor Ramiro Villalvazo, attn: Travel Management DEIS, 100 Forni Road, Placerville 95667 or send an e-mail to comments-pacificsouthwest-eldorado@fs.fed.us. For more information on all of the alternative plans, log onto www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route

The Larger Picture -- not just this one Forest
Travel Management Planning, also known as Route Designation, is a nationally-driven process coming to every National Forest across the land. Users need to get informed quickly, so that they can engage the process early, during Route Inventory, and stay involved to keep their plan on track. The Eldorado National Forest is one of the first Forests through the process, and if they are any indication of the process elsewhere, the Forests will be trying to slick through as many trail closures as possible with as little public feedback as possible, all while complying with the absolute minimum letter-of-the-law public notice.

OHV Viewpoint by Randy Burleson, Communication Coordinator for Friends of the Rubicon
Members of the public and organized groups have provided consistent feedback to the Forest through all three years of this process, but find that their comments have been only marginally acknowledged, and often ignored. A specific alternative from the Blue Ribbon Coalition was included, but diluted across the primary alternatives. Friends of the Rubicon and Rubicon Trail Foundation provided specific map corrections that were ignored. The results of a summit between the Eldorado National Forest and OHV groups regarding seasonal closure were almost entirely ignored, as well, even though the representatives present represent users across the state and nation (California Association of Four Wheel Drive Clubs, California Off-Road Vehicle Association, United Four Wheel Drive Association, Blue Ribbon Coalition, Friends of the Rubicon, and Rubicon Trail Foundation).

The whole process is flawed, and is being driven to deadline by Judge Karlton's 08/25/05 federal court ruling that stemmed from a lawsuit by environmentalist groups and intervened against by OHV users. The court gave the Forest Service until the end of the year to get a new plan approved -- the best plan of action may be to go back to Judge Karlton and apply for an extension, to ensure that the public is fully aware of the impending gates and closures across the majority of the routes on the Eldorado National Forest. Closures this sweeping need to be reviewed by all current and potential future users, not just the few groups contacted by the Forest Service.

The Eldorado National Forest is proliferated with all kinds or routes, dispersed camping spurs, old mining and timber roads, system routes, unauthorized routes, and etc. For years, the Forest has completely mismanaged the forest in general and neglected their route system -- now their recovery plan is management-by-closure. Friends of the Rubicon and most rational recreationists support retaining routes open, as many of them have been for decades. If the Forest has specific problems with a specific trail, we support them working with the user group to resolve that problem, closing them only at last resort, after all less invasive methods have been exhausted. As demonstrated on the Rubicon Trail and Barret Lake Trail, there is an untapped font of volunteers to assist the Forest Service at no cost!
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Terrill Sligar

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 12:57:26 am »

maps and GIS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer:
The Forest Service uses the most current and complete data available. GIS data and product accuracy may vary. They may be: developed from sources of differing accuracy, accurate only at certain scales, based on modeling or interpretation, incomplete while being created or revised, etc. Using GIS products for purposes other than those for which they were created, may yield inaccurate or misleading results.

The above was taken from the DEIS disc

As I am a degree'd GIS/cartographer let me try and explain the process and ideas of how the forest service could have came up with their messed up alternatives of which we have no choice in choosing, other than the preffered choice D

there were two GIS proffessionals at the folsom meeting, Jason and the dark haired lady, GIS is an acronym for Geographic information systems which entails manipulation of computer data and programs to come up with the desired effect or situation which is usually determined by a person higher up in their chain of command, These GIS proffessionals usaully spend their days compiling,collecting,arranging and configuring Data obtained through varying sources. They have probably hardly ever actually been in the field if at all, if any of this data was field collected it was done with students or interns of which were well underpaid and had varying degrees of envoiromental activism, THAT is to be said if any was collected by the Forest Service at all.

desired effect or situation: all data that is aquired is formulated into tables,rows and columns with special IDs, when the maps are formulated with all this information, they start hitting the delete button,lets say a small stream crosses a trail somewhere and they dont want that messed with, click of the button and all trails and roads with any type of watershed(big,medium or small) dissapears from the map whether it has a crossing or could have a crossing built or not with no actual physical human interaction. ok one more example, there is a trail at capps crossing that is muddy late into the year that is considered a spring by the forest service when actually this area just holds a snow bank until late into the summer, since the Forest service considers this a spring when the button goes click it disappears off of any trail map forever along with many others in the same situation but not nessicarily a true watershed.

At the folsom meeting a gentleman asked "wheres the data" as I am sure we have different meanings of data, the fact remains that absolutly no data or metadata(data about data) has been provided. no sources,files,tables or websites have been provided, this in itself says that not only could the data they used be corrupted, but that maybe the sources that they used could be: 1. old(as old as 1990) 2.have a conflict of interest(data provided bythe wrong people)3.manipulated in the wrong way(either in error or on purpose)

Most maps,especially ones created by a federal government agency have to live up to standards of maps set up by the government in order to ensure accuracy of information and coordinates and is always,ALWAYS provided for on government maps with a heading usually under the legend, this is not present or referenced to on any of the maps provided in DEIS statement or any of the current route designation maps.

Many people of the general public have noticed many errors on the current maps, who is to say that all their information or data is in any way shape or form correct!!!!! In my opinion this makes the entire DEIS in error.

i can see in the future where this will impact not only outdoor recreationist but also enities of the state also along with many private companies including:
1. ca df&g(revenue)
2. sporting goods stores
3. offroad stores
4. motorcycle and quad sales
5. local area revenues
6. ca dmv(revenues)
7. prospecting outlets
8. campers and other recreational vehicle sales
9. and eventually the Forest Service itself

All of this to be done with click of a computer with no human interaction in the forest at all, sometime in the future it will be nice just to see pictures of forest
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Todd Ockert

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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 07:09:18 am »

Terry

Thanks for clearing up the information about GIS.  I always thought it was like GPS data that was manipulated into a form of GPS data that the forest service used.

Good explination, and very clear.

Todd
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Todd Ockert

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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 07:30:29 am »

Got this from www.pirate4x4.com

BRC files Request for SEIS on Eldorado DEIS

Please find BRC's request for an SEIS based on a numerous flaws in the DEIS and potential impacts to the current planning process because of ongoing roadless and planning rule lawsuits.

http://www.sharetrails.org/uploads/P...L_08.02.07.pdf


Todd
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Terrill Sligar

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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2007, 10:03:47 am »

it does include GPS, but it is much more than that, gps coordinates would have been the only thing that was field collected, all other information would have been from foreign soursces because of lack of warm bodies to collect is, accuracy in this case should be in serious question for this information as who is to say what the control factors were in the collection of this data(watersheds, protected plants and animals, over vegitated areas) and the list goes on to whatever happened to pop into their minds at the time, my worries in this is WHO they obtained the information from??

unless the BRC has the proper proper programs and software to even view these programs it will be useless to them and it can be very exspensive

Terry
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Todd Ockert

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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2007, 10:33:02 am »

Terry

I appreciate you making me smart on this stuff. 
I have a pretty good idea of how they do the travel management or route designation, or how you want to call it.

This GIS stuff looks like it can be complicated, but once you understand it, and can compile the date into the proper format, it is easy to look at and evalute.

Almost like putting it into a database, or large excel file to be able to sort it as needed by the different headings or groups.

Thanks

Todd
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Terrill Sligar

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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 11:19:34 am »

Terry

I appreciate you making me smart on this stuff. 
I have a pretty good idea of how they do the travel management or route designation, or how you want to call it.

This GIS stuff looks like it can be complicated, but once you understand it, and can compile the date into the proper format, it is easy to look at and evalute.

Almost like putting it into a database, or large excel file to be able to sort it as needed by the different headings or groups.

Thanks

Todd

I can see you're pretty computer literate, that is pretty much the basis for GIS, sometimes in a physical geographical type database

terry
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