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UFWDA Community Forum  |  UFWDA General Discussion  |  General UFWDA Topics  |  Topic: Event liability insurance « previous next »
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Author Topic: Event liability insurance  (Read 2500 times)
Andy Steiner
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« on: August 01, 2007, 03:25:59 pm »

I have a quick question that I thought you might be able to point us in the right direction.  Vegas Valley 4 Wheelers is looking into sources of "Event Liability Insurance" for Hump N Bump. We are members of both UFWDA and the Blue Ribbon Coalition. We are also a Nevada non-profit corporation.  Do any of these associations have a recommendation or a referral?


Andy
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Tammy Lynn Van Gemert
Northeast Association of 4WD Clubs
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 10:41:32 pm »

I'm sure one of the Board members may have better info but insurance is an issue all across the country for 4WD recreation since 9/11. I have done some significant research for our Association and I contacted some of the larger carriers only to be told they are not interested in assuming the risks. I even contacted companies who covered some of the more extreme sports thinking they would be interested. Prior to 9/11 my club and the NEA4WDC used K&K Insurance but after 9/11 we both received a letter stating their underwriter did not want to generate the policy anymore-even though we were grandfathered in. At one point they did tell me if we could generate something showing the potential that would be lost by not underwriting these policies anymore-we may have a shot at getting it back. Honestly K&K did not want to lose the policies because they knew how much it was generating for them but if they didn't have an underwriter than they could not continue.

Since then we have been using a local insurance company and we have General Business Liability Policy. The underwriter for that is Zurich but I have been told from our agent that Zurich is not chomping at the bit to write the policy for us. As far as the Release Waiver for our events we still use the one we had from K&K-it does not reference K&K and it is a standard Motorsports Event Release Waiver. My husband and I have a friend who is an Insurance Attorney that we are able to bounce things off of so that also helps us out. I'd be more than happy to forward the Release Waiver to you if you're interested.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 10:43:23 pm by Tammy Lynn Van Gemert » Logged

Tammy Lynn Van Gemert
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 10:57:57 pm »

When we were running the Texas Trail Rides events we pretty much ran into the same thing Tammy is describing.. and it comes down to individual states as welll - finding someone who will write a policy in Texas they may not be willing to or can't write a policy in Utah.

And very few organizations understand what a "recreational" event is.. which makes getting a contract even harder.  The wording does things like "protect spectators" and does nothing for those wha are "part of the event".  One has to not only find someone willing to write it but one must also be very sure to read the declarations if they do get a policy - and understand intimatly what it is actually covering.

Our events had to cease because we could no longer find insruance that would cover the event and protect the land owners.

- Shawn
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 11:04:33 pm »

Oh I think one solution might be to catalog the number of events and the number of participants invovled in UFWDA Organizations and try to get one policy.. this was attempted once before but had lack luster response from the delegates.

What I think it came down to.. and Carla (and others) might have to refresh my memory - is that because things are so different in each state a blanket policy was tough to get.

At one point a person did say they thought they could write a policy for $15 or $20 per person (each person in UFWDA)... the discussion focused on gathering the data to provide back to the insurance carrier.. but people (delegates, BOD etc) felt it was not worth pursuing at the time because there were bigger fish to fry... and it appeared would have taken all the money the delegates pay to UFWDA just for the policy - and no one was willing to entertain a dues increase almost doubling the dues just to provide insurance...

Plus then Orgnaizations who hold events vs. those that don't... and all attendees would have to be UFWDA members... on and on and on..

Having said all that it is certainly something that it would seem all the Organizations can get behind and could really be something if UFWDA could figure out a way to secure reasonable insurance for non-competitive events and trail rides.

- Shawn
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dds4x4
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 11:30:40 pm »

Andy,

Our Treasurer, Paul H, handles the insurance for Great Lakes FWDA.
He is on here from time to time, perhaps he'll respond with some facts regarding our insurance.
I'll alert him with the notice.

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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 11:33:10 pm »

A while back, it was mentioned here in California, that there was a Michigan company that was offering event insurance for different associations and groups. 
I can not find my info, but have emailed the Central District VP, to see if he has any of this old info. 

I think he was located in Northern Michigan, or a Yupper!  The Michiganders will understand that term.

Todd
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Melissa Simmons
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 07:20:19 am »

When I interviewed John Hunt from Big Dogs Offroad Inc. for my most recent article in the Voice, he and I spoke very briefly about insurance for the events he hosts.  I need to contact John this week anyway on another matter, so will ask him about this topic also.  I believe he works for a national insurance organiation, and is likely well-versed in insuring the type of events we host.  He is a great guy and I'm sure would be more than happy to explain things to me in a "crayon and paper" fashion that I'm able to understand and relay to everyone.

More as I learn it......

~M~
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Jim Kitson
Great Lakes 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 07:38:28 am »

A while back, it was mentioned here in California, that there was a Michigan company that was offering event insurance for different associations and groups. 
I can not find my info, but have emailed the Central District VP, to see if he has any of this old info. 

I think he was located in Northern Michigan, or a Yupper!  The Michiganders will understand that term.

Todd


Seems to me that the Youpper company is not the best way to go now.  Like Doug said, Paul Hittie has a good handle on this & we'll make sure he weighs in.

Jim
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 07:48:25 am »

Thanks Melissa and to all the others that have weighed in on this topic.

I think it is something that we can look at, but as we all know, at the present time, we do not host any events.

Marti has talked to me about changing this, and having a United sponsored trail rides somewhere in the country. 
So, with that info, we do need to look at something that we can get that is affordable, and provides a benefit to us with minimal cost. 

As most of us also know, that have helped with events, insurance is not cheap. 

Thanks

Todd
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Jim Kitson
Great Lakes 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 08:20:40 am »

Seems to me that United has enough items on the plate without hosting an event.  Leave that to the regional associations.
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Rob St. Clair
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2007, 08:53:53 am »

You might also check with NOHVCC. At one time they where getting into event insurance. I think it was more for competition events (Spectator Liability) but they may have something to help.
Rob St. Clair
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 09:20:02 am »

You might also check with NOHVCC. At one time they where getting into event insurance. I think it was more for competition events (Spectator Liability) but they may have something to help.
Rob St. Clair

Just FYI - when I checked on Insurance with NOHVCC - it basically came down to they had a list of people - the same people Tammy noted above and many I had already checked with... and most of them no longer cover these type of events... NOHVCC was surprised as it turned out they had compiled a list of underwriters and companies but didn't verify if they actually still wrote policies or not.

- Shawn
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Carla Boucher
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 10:41:23 am »

I have spent many hours over the past 4 years looking for event liability insurance.  I've looked for a policy that UFWDA could purchase and then offer to member organizations, I've looked for insurance contacts to give to orgnizations so they could purchase on their own, I've look for a policy that UFWDA would purchase and then get riders from for each event a member organization conducts.  A policy was offered to UFWDA delegates in 2004.  The policy covered every event our member organizations had a cost of $15/event.  However, there was also an annual premium on the policy of $224,000.  This would have equated to an additional $28/member charge just for insurance.  As Shawn indicated, this amount was too steep to think that every UFWDA member would continue to join.  

Since 2004 I have continued to seek event liability insurance for our members.  I receive about 2 requests a month from land owners or club asking for help obtaining this insurance.

I recently was contacted by two seperate insurance programs and am looking into the products they offer.  I will post the information when it's available.

Carla
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Carla Boucher, Attorney
United Four Wheel Drive Associations
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2007, 12:00:38 am »

This is the company I had heard of late last year that offered event insurance.
Not sure if anyone has looked at what they have to offer.

This is taken from Del Albrights site: http://www.delalbright.com/Access/ohv_insurance.htm

NEW INSURANCE PROGRAM AVAILABLE FOR OHV CLUBS AND PARKS

A positive turn for one of the toughest obstacles that off-highway vehicle recreationists currently face

Motorized off-road recreation is enjoyed by a large segment of the population, with approximately 15 million off-highway vehicle (OHV) riders currently in the US . With the increasing popularity of OHV recreation, the many challenges of insuring OHV clubs and parks have appeared.

Insurance coverage, particularly liability insurance, has been tough to obtain for OHV recreation," says Jeff Magowan, of Garceau,Wenick-Kutz, Magowan Insurance Agency in Escanaba , Michigan . Magowan, an avid off-highway motorcyclist, has been involved in insuring OHV clubs and parks for many years. Because of his passion and involvement in the sport, he understands the unique requirements of this specialized coverage.

Unfortunately, insurance coverage has only been available sporadically, leaving many clubs and parks either without coverage, or paying exorbitant premiums. Increasing the availability of insurance coverage for off-highway recreation was a natural for Magowan.             

Recently, working with an "A-Rated" insurance carrier, he has developed a competitive insurance option for off-highway organizations, businesses, and trail systems. "Putting all the pieces together has been a five year project," says Magowan. "We've put several risks in the program, and have found the coverage and pricing to be very competitive.

 ccording to Jeff, his affiliation with the National Off-Highway Vehicle Conservation Council helped in the development of his most recent OHV insurance program. Because the participants in NOHVCC programs represent the "best in the business" of OHV recreation, the program is being released initially through the  NOHVCC, before being introduced to the general public.
As laws vary from state to state, the insurance coverage may not be available in all states. For more information, contact Jeff Magowan at (906)789-0900 or by email at jam@garceauins.com

Jeff Magowan of Escanaba , Michigan was recently appointed as the NOHVCC Associate State Representative from the Wolverine State


Todd
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Carla Boucher
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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2007, 11:10:08 am »

Unfortunately, Jeff is unable to write coverage for a 4x4 event.  I contacted him many months ago when the notice from NOHVCC first came out.

Carla
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Carla Boucher, Attorney
United Four Wheel Drive Associations
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