Questions from VA4WDA

[Jennifer Leslie]

Hello, am a on the board of directors for VA4WDA and I (we) have a point of concern.  Several people from VA4WDA received the below e-mail from Greg Jackson asking for help / money.

VA4WDA would like to act promptly on this e-mail, but in order for us to do so we need some information and answers. 

I know you have a business plan from last year to get you out of the financial crises you were in, what is the state of that plan?

What part of your plan is not working? 

Where are you spending the money? 

Are those purchases necessary to move forward or are they negatively
affecting the business? 


What is your new plan moving forward?

Have the other member associations received a similar e-mail asking for financial assistance?

VA next montly meeting is Oct 27.  Any answers you can provide before then would be great.  Or even better yet, have a united rep come to the meeting in Richmond. 

thanks, Jennifer Leslie 

[Gregg Jackson]

jennifer,

As the person who raised these concerns to VA4WDA, I would have anticapeted a response directly. It is my perspective that this is an internal VA4WDA discussion that I have raised, and will be discussed with United Representative's at our next meeting. As I raised this issue, please respond to me directly.

Thank You
Gregg Jackson
VA4WDA Land Use Chair
2006 United Volunteer of the year

[Chris Hannis]

Hello, am a on the board of directors for VA4WDA and I (we) have a point of concern.  Several people from VA4WDA received the below e-mail from Greg Jackson asking for help / money.

VA4WDA would like to act promptly on this e-mail, but in order for us to do so we need some information and answers. 

I know you have a business plan from last year to get you out of the financial crises you were in, what is the state of that plan?

What part of your plan is not working? 

Where are you spending the money? 

Are those purchases necessary to move forward or are they negatively
affecting the business? 


What is your new plan moving forward?

Have the other member associations received a similar e-mail asking for financial assistance?

VA next montly meeting is Oct 27.  Any answers you can provide before then would be great.  Or even better yet, have a united rep come to the meeting in Richmond. 

thanks, Jennifer Leslie 

YES!
That is what the BOD and Contract employees are saying.  If UFWDA doesn't receive full support of member associations and in general more members, the association will go under. 

There are and have been discussions going on under the delegates section of this forum which you should be privy to as a member of UFWDA.  PM the administrator and ask to be added to that section.  You can read there for yourself and add your questions, advise, suggestions, etc. 

[Carla Boucher]

Jennifer,

UFWDA is not going under.  What we're saying is that we need financial support from our members now more than ever.  If that financial support is not forthcoming we will cut spending. 

UFWDA maintains a balanced budget.  We do not spend more than we make.  The next cuts in expenditures will be the attorney, the business sales manager, and the Voice.  As those expenses are cut and those benefits are lost, it poses an ever greater challenge for UFWDA to attract business members and people members.  Are you going to continue to support UFWDA if you get no Voice or a small MS Word produced newsletter and if you've got no national representation in Congress, with land managers, or in the courts?  If we cut all the expenses except mailing and phone are those 2 benefits enough to keep your membership? 

So we're NOT saying UFWDA is going under.  We're saying that if those members who are left see value in the UFWDA they support they need to increase that support to take up the slack for lack of funding elsewhere, be it reduced business support or reduced member support.  Just this week UFWDA has received an e-mail indicating we would get more financial support from a club in the west if we didn't concentrate our efforts exclusively in the east and another e-mail indicating we would get more financial support from a business in the east if we didn't concentrate our efforts exclusively in the west.  Have you seen the map of where UFWDA has done work for you in 2008?  If not why haven't you seen it?  It was presented in the annual report.  If you have then you know that we have represented four wheel drive interests all over the country! 

UFWDA's annual gross revenue for 2008 to date is $168,000.  UFWDA doesn't have a "mismanagement" problem!  We've managed YOUR money very well.  Ask yourselves what other organization provides more value for the dollar?  Does the attorney at any other organization donate 1/2 their year's salary in pro bono work for the sport?  We bring you the Voice, a 40 page full-color production at an average cost of $1.21/issue/member. 

Finally, I am trying to understand why you do not have these answers at your disposal from way back in late July.  VA4WDA sent a delegate to the AGM and the annual report was shared with the entire membership in July 2008.  I know the VA4WDA delegate in both a professional capacity and personally and I just can not believe that he failed to give VA4WDA a report as a result of his attendance at the AGM.  Did his report not go into detail about what the UFWDA plan for 2008 and 2009 is regarding marketing, planning, budget, etc.?  We spent many hours discussing this issue with the delegate at the AGM.  If he did not provide VA4WDA with a report then I must ask why?  That's why UFWDA undertook the expense for the AGM that it did - to communicate openly and in-depth with our supporting members.  If he did share it with VA4WDA why don't you have that information?  Most of your questions were answered in the financial reports in the Annual Report.

Have the other member associations received a similar e-mail asking for financial assistance?

YES - Every member received the same request.  Are you not subscribed to the UFWDA E-news?  It was published days ago and the information that spawned Gregg Jackson's letter to the VA4WDA board was included in that monthly publication.  The benefit is free, are you not availing yourself of that benefit?  To subscribe go here:  www.ufwda.org.  On the home page there is both a place to "subscribe" to the monthly E-news as well as a place to "read" the E-news.  Thanks to Gregg Jackson for passing on the information to VA4WDA but frankly every member of VA4WDA is a member of UFWDA and could have had the information delivered directly to their in-box if they subscribed to E-news. 

I am all about striving to give our members the best bang for their buck.  It seems that our members expect the same level of services they might get from the NRA or BlueRibbon Coalition, both of whom have annual gross revenue that is more than 6 to 10 times ours.  And speaking of getting a bang for your membership buck, VA4WDA rightly asks what UFWDA does for them.  Are you availing yourselves of the fund raising and education program with your Chief Instructors of the UFWDA 4 Wheel Drive Awareness Class?  You have chief instructors yet UFWDA is unaware of any classes being given by VA4WDA.  This is a direct fund-raising program for VA4WDA and UFWDA yet your association doesn't availl themselves of the program.  I did research work on the access issues at Second Mountain in the George Washington National Forest 5 or 6 years ago.  Is VA4WDA utilizing that information and undertaking my advise on how to permanently secure access from the state route up to the National Forest gate?  If not, why? 

VA4WDA has (or had) 2 clubs, Capitol City and 4-Plus, who utilize Cape Hatteras National Seashore for four wheel drive recreation for their fishing tournaments.  Have the AIAC representatives to VA4WDA from those clubs not shared with you the work UFWDA has done via the seat we hold for your benefit on the ORV Rulemaking committee?  If not, why?  They have members in attendance at those committee meetings and I've provided written reports in the Voice on what UFWDA is doing?  Cape Hatteras National Seashore in North Carolina is one of those areas where UFWDA is offering a direct benfit to VA4WDA members while at the same time being criticized and losing revenue from clubs in the West because our work in NC "appears" as if UFWDA doesn't care enough about issues in the west.   From my perspective I have UFWDA being criticized for the work it is doing in NC from our members in the west and then having VA4WDA, the direct beneficiaries of that work, wondering what the heck we're doing at UFWDA for you. 

I have provided a status report on the business plan benchmarks for the first 2 quarters of 2008 to a board member(s) of VA4WDA via e-mail.  Did they not share that with you or with the VA4WDA membership? 
 
At any rate, as soon as I am able in the next few days to collect the data you are seeking I will provide it to you.  In the meantime, if you can check with your VA4WDA delegate to UFWDA I would really appreciate it.  If you still have questions about UFWDA after speaking with your VA4WDA delegate to UFWDA or with Gregg Jackson, please by all means let me know.

Thank you,
Carla

[Steve Jackson]

The next cuts in expenditures will be the attorney, the business sales manager, and the Voice.

That might be in no particular order, but reverse it and you're on the right track.  Switch to a smaller, b/w magazine and save UF $10K/year.

[Gregg Jackson]

After reading the responses to my letter, I felt that some things needed be clarified, and some questions needed to be answered. And I hope that I can answer most of them here, but if not please be aware that UFWDA representation will be at the VA meeting in Sandston next Monday the 27th.

 

Beware: this one will not be brief.

 

United Four Wheel Drive Association was organized primarily to assist and represent member associations in issues as they relate to the use of motorized vehicles on public and private lands.* UFWDA is the only four wheel drive exclusive organization in the country, all others are mixed use. Who do you think will represent our interests better, our own people, or someone that is in the business of representing others?

 

The Blue Ribbon Coalition is a national non-profit organization dedicated to preserving responsible recreational access to public lands and waters.* Good organization, but when it comes to where they will focus there attention, will it go to the folks that have $100,000 in donations or the ones that have 4 mil in donations. I hate to say it but the 4 million will win. And this 4 million comes from the motorcycle industry, not the 4X4 industry.

 

Tread Lightly is a nonprofit organization offering a variety of tools to help arm recreationists and the industries that serve them with essential outdoor ethics.  Our mission is to proactively protect recreation access and opportunities in the outdoors through education and stewardship initiatives.* This is a PR machine that does a great job for us. But they are not going to fight legislation to close our public or private lands.

 

The Virginia Four Wheel Drive Association is a family-oriented, non-profit organization promoting safe, responsible and fun four wheeling.* This is my organization, I am an active member and I volunteer more hours than you want to know to this organization, but I know that when it comes to protecting our rights, a local organization won't cut it. We can fight locally, and might do OK for a few years, but when precedents are being set across the country in Land use cases, it won't be long before they are used on us in Virginia. And believe me, once the public lands are closed, the private lands aren't far behind. And if you think they can't mess with you on private land, think again, you might own it, but you don't control it.

 

Let Trout Unlimited, a national organization with more than 150,000 volunteers organized into about 400 chapters from Maine to Montana to Alaska. This dedicated grassroots army is matched by a respected staff of lawyers, policy experts and scientists, who work out of more than 30 offices nationwide"* find out that a trout stream runs through your property, or that the run off from your land feeds a stream that feeds a trout stream, runs through your land, and your off roading there, I don't think so. Money talk's people and I have seen it condemn a piece of land because a corporation was done fighting with the owner who wouldn't sell them a right of way. They got nothing now.

 

Last year, the UFWDA reorganized because of issues with how money was collected from its different Associate organizations. And they wanted to make it even across the board to all of the Associates. There where also management issues that had to be taken care of, but these things will not be discussed by me as it's not my place.

 

The restructure was put in place, and fingers crossed that the membership would understand and continue to back the organization. And some did, about five state organizations, including VA4WDA, continued with full support of UFWDA. Other state organizations decided to take the "lets wait and see what happens" approach and went for the $100 option. The difference is that every member of the VA4WDA is a member of UFWDA with full benefits and every member has voting rights. The other states are counted as one, no members benefits, the entire state gets one vote.

 

So what does this have to do with UFWDA needing money you ask? Well first off, we lost around 50% of our membership dues. The "lets see what happens" attitude struck a huge blow. Then because we lost 50% of our membership, it makes it harder to sell those corporate memberships. The package used to sell advertisement for the Voice, UFWDA quarterly magazine, does not look as beneficial as before, so there's more money lost. And this along with the current market accounts for around a 75% loss in revenue to the organization. Let's put some perspective to this, Trout Unlimited has annual revenue of about 20 million dollars with 150,000 members, The Blue Ribbon Coalition is about 4 million annual, and UFWDA is so much less than these it makes me wonder how they do what they do. If we got a dollar from every Trout member we could double it. How do you fight what were fighting, on a budget like that.

 

There are some deals in the works that sound very promising, SEMA is in two weeks and meetings have been set up to generate support. And a couple of more very competent people have stepped up to help the organization get back on the road. There are some very dedicated individuals working for us, individuals who could be out in the general work force making a good living doing what they do. But because of there love of our sport, and most of the people, they continue to sacrifice. They continue to put in those 60 to 70 hour weeks trying to get this organization back on track after others let it decline into its current state. They are still out there working for us, even after hearing some of the people they are busting there butts for, berate them. The current management of this organization did not put it into its current state; they are the ones trying to revive it.

 

United has not mismanaged its money since the reorganization, it has not spent it on trips to the Bahamas', or parts for there rigs. It has been spent fighting in Tellico, the outer banks, as well as other fights around the country. It has been spent trying to build back what had been neglected for so many years. Instead of bashing the hard work that's being done trying to rebuild, we need to pitch in and support them. Ask them what we can do to help. Step up and volunteer to run for an office, and make a difference.

 

We must remember that the United Four Wheel Drive Association is OUR organization, treat it like it. Get involved, participate on the different forums online, and get your ideas out there. If you hear about something going on, good or bad, please let everyone know. When you purchase from a vendor, see if they advertise with us, if they do thank them, if they don't tell them they should. If you don't take care of your organization no one will. And when it's gone, there is no one to blame but yourself.

 

As you can tell, I am passionate about my sport. I don't let it blind my judgment, but I understand how a volunteer organization works. I have done some research on what's been going on here. I don't know everything that has gone on in the past, but I know the people that are handling it right now, and I trust that they have dedicated themselves to making UFWDA the strongest organization that they can. And I stand behind them one hundred percent.

 

Thanks

Gregg Jackson

 

 

* Taken directly for the organizations website.

 

[Paul Hittie]

YES!
That is what the BOD and Contract employees are saying.  If UFWDA doesn't receive full support of member associations and in general more members, the association will go under. 

There are and have been discussions going on under the delegates section of this forum which you should be privy to as a member of UFWDA.  PM the administrator and ask to be added to that section.  You can read there for yourself and add your questions, advise, suggestions, etc. 

No, that is not what the Board and the contractors are saying.  Or if they are, someone forgot to send me the memo.  We have trimmed our spending and gotten as lean as we can.  As we look forward to the rest of the 4th quarter, we are going to have to make some deeper cuts in our spending unless we find some additional funding, from our existing members and member organizations, through a new membership drive, or from corporate sponsors.  We have already lost one of our paid contractors and replaced her duties with volunteers and increased BOD participation, we are hoping to avoid further cuts of this kind.  Making cuts does not constitute "going under" - reducing our expenses to match our projected revenue is simply a sound business management practice.  What it does mean is if we have to make those cuts we will have to reduce the level of benefits and services UFWDA provides (or find even more volunteers to take up the load), which makes it tougher to attract and/or retain individual members, and diminishes the value we provide to our corporate advertisers.

[Chris Hannis]

No, that is not what the Board and the contractors are saying.  Or if they are, someone forgot to send me the memo.  We have trimmed our spending and gotten as lean as we can.  As we look forward to the rest of the 4th quarter, we are going to have to make some deeper cuts in our spending unless we find some additional funding, from our existing members and member organizations, through a new membership drive, or from corporate sponsors.  We have already lost one of our paid contractors and replaced her duties with volunteers and increased BOD participation, we are hoping to avoid further cuts of this kind.  Making cuts does not constitute "going under" - reducing our expenses to match our projected revenue is simply a sound business management practice.  What it does mean is if we have to make those cuts we will have to reduce the level of benefits and services UFWDA provides (or find even more volunteers to take up the load), which makes it tougher to attract and/or retain individual members, and diminishes the value we provide to our corporate advertisers.

Oh, I guess I must have miss understood all the pleas for $$ and the countless articles, emails, posts etc. that state in general:  if we don't get members to give more and/or get more members all together; there won't be a UFWDA to fight for our rights!  In Marti's last article in the VOICE she specifically states and hints toward the above. 

[Carla Boucher]

That might be in no particular order, but reverse it and you're on the right track.  Switch to a smaller, b/w magazine and save UF $10K/year.

No, actually, if we go to b/w it will save UFWDA $1,758.64 a year.  That's not a typo on my end.  It would save us exactly One Thousand Seven Hundred dollars and some change a YEAR.  That is equal to a savings of 9 cents per member per edition or 36 cents a year.  What member here wants UFWDA to go from color to b/w to save 36 cents this year on your membership profit?  Or asked another way, what members here want UFWDA to reduce their expenses by less than 1% in exchange for getting a b/w magazine instead of a color one?  And who here would be critical of UFWDA fiscal management if we reduced the quality of the Voice to save about 36 cents a member? 

And to be more precise, it would actually save us less than the figure I quoted above when I factor in the reduced advertising sales revenue for a b/w ad in comparison to the price for a color ad. 

But to take you at your word, let's assume that UFWDA does reduce the cost of the Voice and thereby cut $1,758.64 in expenses for the year.  A savings of $1,758.64 does not reduce the liklihood of cutting both the attorney and the business sales and operations manager.  So how does that put us on the right track?

Carla

[Steve Jackson]

Well, you can keep trying to bash what I'm saying and continue on the path that UFWDA is on, or you can open your mind and make changes that will result in a better chance for success.

As hard-headed as the OHV community members are, I've found that the staff and volunteers of "our" organizations are the worst.  They ask for help, and then tell everyone that they're wrong when they offer volunteer help or suggestions.

You might only save 1700 with your current printer.  If that's all you'll save, you need to look at another production option.  How many bids have you looked at?  I should also mention that I left out my suggestion to reduce pages as I suggested in another post.  Combine those recommendations, save money.  Or don't and keep on the current course.  Sounds like it's working out great.

To Gregg's comments...

Since when has BRC brought in $4,000,000 a year?  Check their IRS filings.  Also "let's wait and see" isn't the "choice" associations has made.  You should check your "facts" and assumptions.

[David Gilmore]

On the web site United list 56 Member Organizations, how many paid individual members do these organizations provide to United?  If my numbers are correct VA4WDA provides approximately 600 paid members not just one Association Membership for the entire group.

[Carla Boucher]

To Gregg's comments...

Also "let's wait and see" isn't the "choice" associations has made.  You should check your "facts" and assumptions.

Fact - delegates in attendance at the 2008 UFWDA AGM stated, "our association made the choice to take a wait and see attitude before supporting UFWDA with our full roster this year".  I can only assume that Gregg's delegate to UFWDA, who actually did attend the 2008 AGM Steve, reported it to Gregg.

You might only save 1700 with your current printer.  If that's all you'll save, you need to look at another production option.  How many bids have you looked at?  I should also mention that I left out my suggestion to reduce pages as I suggested in another post.  Combine those recommendations, save money.  Or don't and keep on the current course.  Sounds like it's working out great.

We have looked at other production options.  We just went through the competitive bidding cycle on printer and we received 4 bids.  All of them significantly higher than the one we have now. 

But I know Steve, I'm just being closed minded and defensive in offering any reply.  I can just anticipate a reply that I must not looked correctly, got the right bids, contacted the correct printers, or otherwise done it right or I would have found a cheaper printer. 

I've no doubt UFWDA would save money in the immeidate future by paring down the size of the Voice and going to b/w.  I've also no doubt they'll be saving a ton of money by looking for a cheaper attorney.  They just need to put out the RFP and get the bids.  We'll just have to wait and see whether either of those business decisions that result in a short-term savings indeed results in a long term viable financial solution for UFWDA.

Carla

[Marti Pugh]

Steve,

I understand that you think you are helping and I am willing to take the criticism from you. However, I ask that you please give our member Gregg Jackson, the courteous of not insulting him when he has given lots of actual man hours to assist despite having a family, a full time job and is the land use director for VA4WDA. Gregg Jackson has been extremely supportive of UFWDA and has never done anything but give UFWDA 100% support.All I ask is that you please keep your negative comments directed to those of us that are paid employees.

As far as that black and white version of the Voice, I am not sure that you are looking at the whole picture. When you are selling ad space to a business, the first question that they ask is whether or not it is in full color. In addition, I am not sure that you are understanding the full concept of the revenues that would be lost to ad revenues. Where do you suppose we make up the lost revenues from ad sales that we would incur from converting to a black and white mag? The bottom line is that you may need to know about an organization and the full details before you can make accusations that we are not open minded or are not willing to take help when we ask for it. However, if it is a poor business decision based on a limited knowledge of the actual facts it would be irresponsible for us to do so. In addition, we are taking advise and help from other members, like Gregg Jackson, who are 100% supportive always and are just asking what they can do rather than trying to tell us how to run the business. It turns out that is much more productive and let us hope that he continues to support us after being insulted on the forum.

Do you plan to attend SEMA? If so, please stop by the booth so we can discuss these issues face to face. Sometimes on the internet I think it is easier to get carried away then when you are actually looking at a person and how hard they are working for you.


As far as what you can do to help, my proposal to you is that prior to selling ad space, which is not where we need help, I ask that you sell memberships to your own association. That is what I was implying in my previous note when you responded about your consulting business. What I was asking, and perhaps did not make clear, is that business and ad sales are fine, what we need help with us full roster support from state associations. If you are willing to help then can you please get your membership to come back with their full roster or at least sell some actual memberships. If you can not convince Utah members to come back at $22/member, how will you sell a $5,000 membership to a business, it is the same concept. There is little difference between membership sales and business sales in the skill set that you are using.


I appreciate you keeping the negative comments directed to the paid staff in the future and I am sure that you did not mean to insult a member who is putting in actual man hours to help.

Thanks
Marti

[Gregg Jackson]

OK MR. Jackson, Your right,I should have looked into the 4 million thing, this is info that i read some where and didn't look into.

But even at 1 mill, they are working with over 6.5 times the income we have. Not to mention a few large contributors that follow there lead pretty damn close. And hey, do whats gotta be done to get the job done, and with that kind of revenue, I'm sure we could be looking pretty right now.

So quit being part of the problem, and become part of the solution. Get out there and rally your membership to support us. If you can't, go the hell on.

Sincerely
Big Daddy

[Steve Jackson]

Fact - delegates in attendance at the 2008 UFWDA AGM stated, "our association made the choice to take a wait and see attitude before supporting UFWDA with our full roster this year".  I can only assume that Gregg's delegate to UFWDA, who actually did attend the 2008 AGM Steve, reported it to Gregg.

Every association said that or Gregg's?  If I wasn't at the AGM, then I can't comment??

We have looked at other production options.  We just went through the competitive bidding cycle on printer and we received 4 bids.  All of them significantly higher than the one we have now. 

But I know Steve, I'm just being closed minded and defensive in offering any reply.  I can just anticipate a reply that I must not looked correctly, got the right bids, contacted the correct printers, or otherwise done it right or I would have found a cheaper printer. 

I've no doubt UFWDA would save money in the immeidate future by paring down the size of the Voice and going to b/w.  I've also no doubt they'll be saving a ton of money by looking for a cheaper attorney.  They just need to put out the RFP and get the bids.  We'll just have to wait and see whether either of those business decisions that result in a short-term savings indeed results in a long term viable financial solution for UFWDA.

Spending money in the short term to bet on a long term benefit is irrational if the short term spending leads to the mid term demise of the organization.  Long term benefits aren't going to pay the bills.  When the financial foundation and fundraising plan is strengthened, then long term strategies can be developed and implemented.  It's like trying to build a roof for a house that you hope to build someday.  While you were building the roof, you went broke and couldn't buy the land to get the house started.

I have to continue asking.  All of your comments are defending the actions UFWDA is currently taking.  If UFWDA is doing everything right, then what's the problem?