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UFWDA Community Forum  |  UFWDA General Discussion  |  General UFWDA Topics  |  Topic: Questions from VA4WDA « previous next »
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Author Topic: Questions from VA4WDA  (Read 7890 times)
Todd Ockert
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2008, 10:26:52 pm »

Very nice guys on this work, and finding a way to make this easier for our members.

For those that asked for this to make it easier, thanks, and please keep the ideas coming.

Thanks

Todd
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2008, 12:54:36 am »

The problem Steve, is that UFWDA have recognised that the overall economy is struggling and is threatening our income.  Over several years many of the arguments that you have put forward have been debated by many people at UFWDA conventions and Board meetings.

Is the emphasis on increasing membership income any different from any other of the organisations that advocate for various recreations around the USA and the world? We've just stepped it up a notch to cover a predicted financial squeeze. UFWDA has been honest with our membership and following good business practice. There are some acknowledged improvements in our processes that still need addressing in the move from a volunteer based organisation to one that employs.

It would be great to be able to better deliver what the Utah four wheelers think that they should be getting for their membership fees but part of that delivery comes down to knowing the problem... sound familiar? 

If UFWDA is not kept informed or asked to assist with local issues then it becomes hard to help solve them.  You've been able to get involved with the discussion about finance because we made it known.... it's that simple.



But it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.  There are a lot of questions that have been asked repeatedly without response.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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Tom Sumner
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2008, 01:02:42 am »

Steve I will be happy to answer any and all questions you may wish to ask over the phone anytime you would like to call. It would be my pleasure to hear all aspects that you may be able to help with to increase membership and to avoid any further unnecessary time constraints on waiting. We should start immediately discussing your plans and working together. Call me at your first convenience.

Thanks!
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2008, 07:39:37 pm »

e I will be happy to answer any and all questions you may wish to ask over the phone anytime you would like to call. It would be my pleasure to hear all aspects that you may be able to help with to increase membership and to avoid any further unnecessary time constraints on waiting. We should start immediately discussing your plans and working together. Call me at your first convenience.

Thanks!
[/quote]

This is completely opposite to your private message comments and your comments in the restricted "delegates" forum.

I have posted some of my lingering questions in the general forum.  Please feel free to respond to the issues there before we have any telephone discussions.  It's ok to attack me in private or through email, or even in public. But let's discuss the actual issues and see if there's an opportunity to work together on solutions.
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Steve Jackson
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Gregg Jackson
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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2008, 01:50:23 pm »

I apologise for not posting for a week, but other pressing matters took precedence. Yes the VA4WDA meeting was Monday, we had a real good turnout, good discussion's, and I think all of the questions were answered.
thanks to everyone who participated.
The last two nights I have spent in meetings for the Forest Plan Revision on the George Washington National Forest. And I needed to do some preparation for this.

Now back to Mr. Jackson.

Yes, I keep hearing that. It's commendable. If the UF attorney was in my neighborhood and focused efforts on issues here as there, we wouldn't have such a hard time trying to explain to the "out west" members why they should support UFWDA.

What a lame ass excuse, a couple of years ago when things were happening out there, we said the same stuff. But as stated by Jennifer earlier, It does not matter where a closure happens, once it happens it sets precedents across the nation. And it will be used.

Really? What did I spin?  I see a lot of accusations without any factual backup..

Keep reading, you will see it.

600,000?? Where did you get that?? Referring to $1,000,000 as $4,000,000 is not rounding. That's a false statement whether it was just a matter of being misinformed or an attempt to misrepresent the facts. As you've noted, it's just a matter of being misinformed. IT happens..

"Today, the BlueRibbon Coalition is a respected national recreation group that represents over 10,000 individual members and 1,200 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000 recreationists nationwide."
Direct quote from there website, front page, second paragraph. starting to get dizzy?

$1000, please get your facts right...

Well then you screwed up. It's only $100, look at the forms. What I understand is that you sent in a $1000 donation, not dues. Gettin dizzier.

VA4WDA gets a lot of attention from UFWDA.  I suspect it's a cycle of collusion.  VA gives money, UF focuse on VA issues, that raises the awareness of UF within the VA org and makes it an easy decision to keep supporting UF.  Put money and action on the ground in Utah, and we'd probably see the same resulting support for UF here...

There ya go putting the cart up front again, you want representation, put up or shut up. Its your responsibility first off to make sure that United knows whats happening in your state so that they can react. Allot of the issues we face are not known on a national level. Even in VA, we feed United information on whats happening, and that we need input. Communication is key, you can't fight what you don't know about.


Huh?  Is this how UF feels?  I assume so since the official responses have been similar.

75% of business pledges have gone unfulfilled.

The magazine costs UF $40K/year due to lack of advertising and a bloated production budget.

It doesn't sound like this area is being properly addressed.

I'm not trying to take away anyone's livelihood.  I'm not sure how that's even possible in this scenario.  I offered to help address the issues that I can impact.  If Marti's pride and personal income is more important than the mission of UFWDA, then that's a sad commentary on what is happening at UFWDA.  Marti can have the commissions, I don't want to get paid to help a cause I'm already invested in and personally passionate about.

What?  How do I want to make a profit?  I just wanted to help sell advertising for UF to raise money in response to the "desparate" call for help.  As I've noted, I would never accept payment from a land use group for any of my volunteer services.  Helping the cause is the only reward I'm interested in.
Thank you for clarifying this. Evidentally that is how your conversation was perceived. It's tough to read someones demeanor when is in written form sometimes.

Please give examples where I have turned other statements around for my own benefit.  I expect Marti to make a post here asking you to stop insulting a UF volunteer as she did on your behalf (even though I am still waiting to find out what insults she refers to).

I will not go any further on this other than my previous responses on the spin, there is nothing constructive about it.
Marti is a very dedicated woman, and a good friend. That is all I will say about my defense from her.

Again, please note it is $1000, not $100. Who's making misleading statements?

see above.

I'm not a representative of U4WDA here, I'm a concerned member of the 4x4 community trying to help.  I offer 100% support of UFWDA.  I pay my dues plus a little extra.
 

I appreciate And I thank you for that.

How exactly am I unethical?  I offered to help, I was told my help isn't necessary.  I'm offering input on ways to decrease spending and increase revenue.  All I've seen in response is personal attacks and defending of the currently failing policies.  I don't have much faith in UFWDA at this point, I wouldn't be comfortable using my contacts to gain new support for UFWDA until some internal issues are addressed.  I would be comfortable contacting businesses that have already expressed an interest in supporting UFWDA and converting them into paying business members and ad buyers.  I offered this assistance and my offer was discarded.  Why go out and put efforts (mine, Marti's, yours) into raising money when we can quickly and easily cut spending?  Let's fish for ourselves instead of demanding that everyone give us a percentage of their catch.

When on a shoestring budget, theres little to cut. There are a few benefits that you get with a membership in an organization like this, and to cut those out when the impact to the budget is minimal doesn't make alot of sense. Take The Voice, yea we can save a few bucks by going to cheaper paper or black and white. But when a business looks to advertise in it, you can't get as much for the add, and there add doesn't "pop" like they want it to, so that hurts it even more. not to mention, when I take my copy and show it to the Rangers I deal with, it's allot more impressive than a newspaper.

If blind defense of failing policies is positive, then I guess I am negative.  If UFWDA wants to succeed, it might be a good idea to be open to new ideas and professional advice.  Just a thought.

I have never met you Steve, I don't know you by anything other than what you have written on this forum. And I would have to say after pulling your posts, that they show allot of negativity and argumentativeness. So after reading a few of them, you tend to build a picture of this person and that is how you perceive them to be. If we were to meet, we might become great friends, we have a passion for the same sport. We both don't mind speaking our minds, and ruffling a few feathers. But there comes a time to let it lay, and see how it washes out.

I sell every day, I don't sell a product, I sell myself. In my business it's all about building relationships, and I learned from an old friend that the good lord gave us one mouth and two ears for a reason, to listen twice as much as you talk. It's hard to do some times, but you will benefit from it. No one is here to scam us from anything, no one is here for financial gain. Hell there isn't enough money involved for that. There all here because they, like you and me, love this sport and have the same passion for it. So before anyone of us bad mouths any other person that's working hard for the cause, step back and think about it. And instead of accusing them of something that's not true, ask them politely to explain the situation. Negativity breeds negativity, this is supposed to be a hobbie that we enjoy. Arguing about every little missed fact, or typo, or anything else doesn't help at all.

I have to remind myself of this frequently, I have a big mouth some times, and yes, when I'm worked up about an issue I go off and confuse issues, and facts from time to time. And I apologize for this. But we all do do this sometimes, so give me a break. What I tried to do was to get my organization motivated, and involved. And even in the middle of missed facts, and not quite correct statements, it worked. Questions got answered, people that had not been hear for years got up and voiced there opinions, and we got some money for United Four Wheel Drive Association.

I am done with this discussion on this forum. It has gone overboard and taken up to much of my time and energy, that can be used to do other positive things. If you wish to reply to this, fine go ahead, I will read it, but I am done with the arguing.

Thanks I will take my soap box and leave now.
Gregg.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 01:54:08 pm by Gregg Jackson » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2008, 09:06:48 pm »

This is the end of this thread.  I probably should have locked it much sooner.  While I have no issues with a healthy debate, at a point where people are taking comments personally, riding the edge of going over the line, or purposly trying to engage others in "spitting" contest type arguments it is time for the discussion to change venue.

If you have legitimate items to continue discussing please feel free to post those items in separate posts.

Shawn
UFWDA Forum Admin
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