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UFWDA Community Forum  |  UFWDA General Discussion  |  General UFWDA Topics  |  Topic: Clarification Requested « previous next »
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Author Topic: Clarification Requested  (Read 6009 times)
Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association

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« on: October 29, 2008, 02:54:17 am »

As someone noted, there are some discussions going on here on the UFWDA forum that have many people confused due to lack of complete information.  Some of these discussions are in the open forum, and some are in the "limited access" delegate's forum.

I have posted this message here in hopes of receiving some clarification.

I have asked the following questions and received no response from UFWDA, and the paid contractors have apparently been instructed to not continue discussions regarding these issues.

Is there a contractor at UFWDA who is paid a commission based on gross receipts?

If business sponsorship pledges receive only 25% fulfillment, why doesn't UFWDA take advantage of volunteers offering their time to help with this problem?

Why does UFWDA repeatedly claim it does not require any assistance in selling advertising or business memberships even though the production of The Voice is losing ~$38,000/year?

I have asked these questions numerous times in the last 10 days with no response from UFWDA.  UFWDA is responding to other things, but not these questions.

On a related topic, in response to a specific request for assistance from Carla and Paul, I require the following information.

Job descriptions for currently defined contractor and employee positions.

Copies of previously offered contractor RFP's, employment advertisements, and other solicitations for human resources.

Copies of existing contractor agreements in place for currently active contractors.

Copies of any proposed contractor agreements for unfulfilled positions (if any).

Copies of commission structure and other payment definition documents for current contractor positions (filled or unfilled).
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Melissa Simmons

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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 08:58:41 am »

Steve Jackson said:

Quote
I have asked the following questions and received no response from UFWDA, and the paid contractors have apparently been instructed to not continue discussions regarding these issues. 

Not to offend anyone - or "poke the snake" as the saying goes ... and just to qualify things: I am not speaking in any way shape or form in an "official" UFWDA capacity.  From my personal perspective, from what I have been reading herein the past few days ... it is doubtful that anyone has been _instructed_ not to continue discussion regarding these issues.

I, for one, have found your tone and demeanor less than helpful Steve.  One thing I've learned through the years - you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.  Perhaps the powers that be at UFWDA are a) preparing for SEMA b) working taking care of more pressing matters at hand and c) gathering their thoughts and putting together professional, well thought and accurate replies for you.

We are all on the same team here gang - fighting for the same cause.  Let's grow up and act that way!  Fighting amongst ourselves isn't going to keep any trails open!!!   Angry

Respectfully,
Melissa









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Melissa Simmons

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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 10:47:22 am »

I stand corrected; it has been brought to my attention that Wayne Groom did direct the paid staff to withdraw from engaging in the conversation.

Melissa
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Todd Ockert

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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 11:55:04 am »

Steve

I have your questions above in a word document, and will have answers by the end of next week for you.

I am also getting ready for SEMA and preping for that. 

Please give me a few days to get these all answered and posted back to you.

Thanks

Todd
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UFWDA Member #14102
Member of Cal4Wheel, Hanford Trail Busters, Rubicon 4WDA
www.accessarmy.com
Wayne Groom
UFWDA Past President

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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 01:15:56 pm »

Steve,

Thanks for recapping your concerns/issues. questions in one place.

I will see that you receive a response to this in the next few days (say no later than Nov 4)

Wayne

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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association

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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 07:35:34 pm »

Todd, thanks.

Melissa, UF personnel were responding to everything BUT the few questions pointed out in this thread.

Based on the emails and PM's I've received, many others have similar questions and have developed the same concerns about the lack of specific answers.

If there were only more hours in the day I'd love to summarize the discussion and expand on some of the points I was trying to make.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association

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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 07:48:04 pm »

Thanks Wayne.  I look forward to having a phone discussion, but I hope to get some of the requested information before we talk.  Carla and Paul suggested I work on an alternate job description and compensation package proposal for a fundraising position.  I'm not suggesting that personnel should change, rather that the position itself change.  I'm not sure if they were being serious about that request, but most of the information I requested in my "clarification" thread is my starting point for fulfilling this request.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association

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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 09:33:50 pm »

Is there a contractor at UFWDA who is paid a commission based on gross receipts?

That one is a simple yes/no and an answer would go a long way to clearing up some of the confusion.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association

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President - Utah 4-Wheel Drive Association


« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2008, 02:40:44 pm »

Steve
I have your questions above in a word document, and will have answers by the end of next week for you.
I am also getting ready for SEMA and preping for that. 
Please give me a few days to get these all answered and posted back to you.
Thanks
Todd
To the Board of Directors,
After reading the previous thread on this forum (http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2358) that raises some important questions that the general membership is entitled to know, I would like to receive a copy of these answers as well.    But most importantly, the general membership should have full disclosure of where all of UFWDA money is being spent.

Since the question about 30% commissions seems to be unanswered still - I am very interested in getting a clear and comprehensive answer.  I will be attending SEMA on behalf of the Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association, and look forward to discussing this issue with those representing UFWDA (booth #33128 )

Respectfully,
Steve Edmunds,
President - U4WDA


(To clarify any misunderstanding:  Steve Jackson is a member of U4WDA Board of Directors, I succeeded Steve in June, 2008)
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Keith Fromme

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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2008, 02:50:58 pm »

Why does it feel as if there is something wrong with some being paid a commission?  We don't expect them to work for free?  Or am I missing something else here.
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Tidewater Fourwheelers
VAFWDA
UFWDA
Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association

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President - Utah 4-Wheel Drive Association


« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2008, 03:40:41 pm »

Why does it feel as if there is something wrong with some being paid a commission?  We don't expect them to work for free?  Or am I missing something else here.
It's wrong when it is not fully disclosed "Up Front"  to those who are contributing - be it a $30.00 membership, or a $500 donation.

Look at what happened to "United Way" a few years ago when it became public that only part of the funds donated actually went towards it's intended purpose.
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Peter Vahry
UFWDA International Vice-President

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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2008, 06:27:27 pm »

It must be clearly understood what this alleged 'fund raising' is.

UFWDA publish the UFWDA Voice which is partially paid for by advertising. That advertising space is sold on a commission basis by a contractor to UFWDA.  Volunteer efforts in the past have proved to be inconsistent. Event management has also been contracted out in some cases, which has limited the UFWDA exposure to risk.

The fact that UFWDA is applying business practice to our marketing of the organization to the commercial world to supplement the income from other sources such as clubs, associations and individuals, is reality. Volunteers are still out there and all organizations are grateful to have them  keeping the costs down of providing services to our communities... they just can't do it all efficiently.

UFWDA shifted to a more commercial model of organization to balance the growing demands on volunteers and it has made a difference. Unfortunately US and world economics have required some revision of the financial targets set only a year ago by UFWDA.  There will always be a percentage of the membership who believe processes can or should be improved by any organization.

The Board itself is constantly looking at improvements but many of those are dependent on our resources, which is why we must be looking at a variety of income options and ways of marketing UFWDA as the organization that focuses on vehicles with 4WD. The Board take legal and financial advice on all matters and set the highest standards possible in administering UFWDA and its contractors.

How a 'supporting' organisation such as a regional association/organization views their contribution to UFWDA is relevant too. In the UFWDA view, an organization joining at the basic rate is greatly different to one that acts as an agent for UFWDA by collecting the UFWDA membership fee and passing that on to UFWDA. ( Some organizations have viewed that as being 'their money' because their name is on the check.) There is of course now a benefit to an organization being an agent for UFWDA with the refunding of a portion of the UFWDA fee to the organization doing the collection. Commission or an appreciation for helping UFWDA get on with helping four wheelers?

This forum provided by UFWDA allows unprecedented opportunities for communication with members and by default the whole world. It is for that reason a tool that can help or hinder the whole advancement of UFWDA. It would be great to see it being better employed to advocate for our recreation rather than as a means of creating an undercurrent of discord.  The anti-access movement must be laughing themselves silly.
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Auckland Four Wheel Drive Club Inc, 4x4 Challenges NZ Inc, NZFWDA life member
Todd Ockert

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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2008, 08:04:27 pm »

That one is a simple yes/no and an answer would go a long way to clearing up some of the confusion.

No.

Marti is paid a commission on the ad sales that she generates.

Todd
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UFWDA Member #14102
Member of Cal4Wheel, Hanford Trail Busters, Rubicon 4WDA
www.accessarmy.com
Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association

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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 01:55:50 am »

No.

Marti is paid a commission on the ad sales that she generates.

Todd

OK.  So commission is paid solely on advertising sold.  All other income goes straight to UFWDA without commission.  I look forward to the additional explanation as promised by Wayne.  Thanks very much.

Peter, we understand that UFWDA is trying to operate more like a business.  In trying to take this approach, please remember that being responsive to your customers (members/donors/sponsors/etc) should be part of that approach.  Being responsive means answering questions directly, not diverting the discussion.  I look forward to the direct answers promised by Wayne.  Thank you for your input.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Chris Hannis
Twin City Bushwackers

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President: W4WDA


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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 01:55:11 pm »

No.

Marti is paid a commission on the ad sales that she generates.

Todd
Todd,

According to the Annual Report (http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2210.0) Marti took commissions in the amount of $6,163.50 for the Wheel-in event.  No where in that report does it state that there was $20545.00 in Ad Sales for that event.  If she is only paid on commission on Ad sales she beings in, can you please explain where those ad sales are represented and how that money was spent?

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"You get what you put in and people get what they desirve" Kidd Rock
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