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UFWDA Community Forum  |  UFWDA General Discussion  |  General UFWDA Topics  |  Topic: Clarification Requested « previous next »
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Author Topic: Clarification Requested  (Read 10480 times)
Peter Vahry
UFWDA International Vice-President
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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 02:48:07 pm »

"OK.  So commission is paid solely on advertising sold.  All other income goes straight to UFWDA without commission. "

Steve, you gave the impression that you had read what I'd written, but I'm not sure that you did. Membership fees collected by other organizations for UFWDA are recognized by the 'organization incentive' program which effectively pays a 'commission' to those collection agents; the clubs and other organisations who bring us their members.

On that basis your statement above is not correct.

However please do wait for the advised response from Wayne and enjoy the SEMA show.
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Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 06:20:20 pm »

Ok... if we exclude the OIP from the calculation of commission for UFWDA...  can we dig further into the details that are being asked for?   

As I read the Annual Report  (http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2210.0) - there is this:
 
5. Business and ad sales commission expense exceeds 30% of total supporting member and Voice:Ad sales income because commissions from the Wheel-in were posted under the Business and ad sales commission ledger account instead of the Wheel-in ledger account.

If I take this at Face Value:  it implies that there is an "Ad Sales Commision" as well as a "Business Commission". 

So the question remains...  is there a commission paid on income other than "Advertising in the Voice" and "OIP"?
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 09:57:21 pm »

Todd,

According to the Annual Report (http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2210.0) Marti took commissions in the amount of $6,163.50 for the Wheel-in event.  No where in that report does it state that there was $20545.00 in Ad Sales for that event.  If she is only paid on commission on Ad sales she beings in, can you please explain where those ad sales are represented and how that money was spent?



A $6K commission was paid to someone for income at the Wheel-In event?  I remember reading a long "thank you" post from Carla listing all the people who were involved in organizing and running the Wheel-In, but one person was paid a $6K commission for the event?  I'd have to know more details about what responsibilities were fulfilled to warrant this commission.  Also, was it disclosed to attendees that a percentage of every dollar spent (registrations, raffle tickets, etc) would be paid in a commission?  Where is the disclosure on how contractors for UFWDA are paid?

Some other information was brought to my attention regarding contractor compensation, but I'll wait for the official word from Wayne to see how that plays into the existing contracts and payment structures.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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Chris Hannis
Twin City Bushwackers
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2008, 09:56:09 pm »

Steve,

Thanks for recapping your concerns/issues. questions in one place.

I will see that you receive a response to this in the next few days (say no later than Nov 4)

Wayne

Steve,

Have you received any answers from Wayne that can be shared with the rest of us that have the same or similar questions as you?

Thanks - Chris
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Wayne Groom
UFWDA Past President
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2008, 11:15:30 am »

Here are the responses to the issues/comments and concerns raised over a past number of weeks on forum threads. I felt the most effective way to respond to these would be to respond to all of these in one place and make the information available to others who may have shared the same thoughts.

   UFWDA currently engages a number of individuals in a contractor capacity. Compensation is based on a percentage commission or a predetermined contractor rate. Commissions are not paid on individual membership sales or donations. Commissions are currently paid on business member sales, advertising and event organization. Maximum commission rate paid is 30% and may be split over several contractors with specifics being negotiated at the time of engagement. Commission is typically paid on gross receipts except in some circumstances, such as event organization, where the calculation is based on the net proceeds.

   Last year less money was paid out in commission sales than to any contractor on a fixed rate.

   UFWDA does not disclose specifics on employment engagements or contracts.

   UFWDA is always open to opportunities to receive assistance on a volunteer basis. Clearly though, any offers are evaluated to ensure that the individual has experience that will benefit UFWDA and will be a good fit within the current team. Anybody who feels they have something to offer should direct that interest to the Executive Director, or myself, with a summary of interests/experience that can benefit UFWDA.

   There has been considerable concern raised over comments I recently made regarding and expected collection rate of 25% of some current receivables. UFWDA has not delivered any services against these receivables. When a commitment is made from a business to UFWDA, an invoice is issued which creates a receivable. Looking forward we expect a 25% payment on these receivables based on feedback from business supporters. The primary causes are budget cut backs or, in some cases, the closing of a business. The point of the comment was to illustrate the fact the supporting business dollars will become increasingly tight in the current economic environment. We always welcome support through membership, donation or the promotion of UFWDA to organizations and individuals through networking, the publishing of articles or positive comments over Internet forums.

 I think that everybody on this particular thread, with the exception of Chris, stopped by the booth at SEMA and had a chance to speak to members of the Board and extended Board.

Chris as you are in a personal relationship with Amanda, whose contract as Administrative Officer was not renewed due to our cost containment program, may have some particular points to discuss it might be good to schedule a phone conversation.

For that matter, should anybody be wish any further insight I would welcome the opportunity for a phone conversation.

Wayne
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Chris Hannis
Twin City Bushwackers
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2008, 07:58:27 pm »

   Last year less money was paid out in commission sales than to any contractor on a fixed rate.
Considering there was only a Business development manager for 1/2 the year that's no surprise, prior to that there was minimal done by the operations manager at that time. 


Chris as you are in a personal relationship with Amanda, whose contract as Administrative Officer was not renewed due to our cost containment program, may have some particular points to discuss it might be good to schedule a phone conversation.

Wayne

One Correction Wayne,  Amanda's contract as Administrative Officer was ended or terminated due to your cost containment program.  The way you have worded it, makes it sound as if she didn't have a current contract which she did, as renewed in May 08, signed and mailed to the legal counsel.  This was discussed and provided again at the time of her dismissal.

All I was looking for was an answer to where are the results of the survey that was promised months ago and where are the Current Revised SOP's that were due over 1 year ago.  (Of which, Tom Sumner supplied the location of the SOP's which must have recently been updated to reflect the new ones).

« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 08:04:29 pm by Chris Hannis » Logged

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Keith Fromme
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2008, 10:16:02 pm »

Here are the responses to the issues/comments and concerns raised over a past number of weeks on forum threads. I felt the most effective way to respond to these would be to respond to all of these in one place and make the information available to others who may have shared the same thoughts.

   UFWDA does not disclose specifics on employment engagements or contracts.


I'm not condoning any behavior by a couple folks here the last couple weeks, but that statement right there raises my eyebrows and I actually have a problem with it.  I am and have been behind everything United has and is doing.  I thought United was a member owned and supported organization, and as such I can't understand that statement or policy.  The thing is I have no problem with what anyone is paid or has been paid.  It may not even be enough.  But to hide or keep this information a secret?  It's the principle of the matter, and EVERYTHING should be disclosed on request.  This is not a healthy track to be on IMO.  If I'm off base or I am misunderstanding this topic, then please correct me.
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Peter Vahry
UFWDA International Vice-President
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2008, 02:12:17 am »

Keith, although this forum is primarily for the UFWDA members and through their membership fees they are de-facto shareholders, this is otherwise a fully public internet site.
I'm not so sure that the information you are suggesting should be in the full glare of the wider public, I know that if it was my income being high-lighted then I'd be unhappy (yes it's that low).
You need to give some credit to your BOD to manage those matters and understand that we do so with care and with appropriate advice.

As Wayne mentioned in his commentary, if there are specific matters that members wish to discuss, he will speak with you.
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2008, 11:33:16 pm »

Steve,

Have you received any answers from Wayne that can be shared with the rest of us that have the same or similar questions as you?

I did not receive any response despite the commitment noted previously in this thread.  I did stop by the UF booth at SEMA, and no additional information was provided.  Maybe I am not asking the right questions.  The only insight I was offered is that some of my information might be coming from a disgruntled former contractor.  I admitted that it is always possible that such circumstance might exist, and that I was taking time away from my vacation to visit UFWDA at their booth and get the straight scoop.  But no information was provided to counter the one small piece of information I received from this former contractor.  It was also similar to information I received from a current BOD member.  But this small piece of information is only a tiny part of the bigger discussion I'm trying to have here.

UFWDA currently engages a number of individuals in a contractor capacity. Compensation is based on a percentage commission or a predetermined contractor rate. Commissions are not paid on individual membership sales or donations. Commissions are currently paid on business member sales, advertising and event organization.

This is the first time I've seen or heard an official statement that "event organization" is a component of any contractor commission payments.  This has not been disclosed previously on this forum, and it was not disclosed during my conversation with UFWDA at SEMA.  There still seems to be no answer regarding Marti's $6K commission on income generated at the Wheel-In.  There has been no confirmation, no denial, and no explanation.  Again I have to recommend transparency.  A couple different people have asked, and it seems reasonable to expect a response detailing the income, costs and commissions associated with the Wheel-In.  I'm in no way suggesting impropriety in this case, and merely seeking clarification.  The lack of response

I think it's also worth noting that one contractor (filling two roles) is being paid a predetermined rate AND a percentage based commission.

UFWDA Treasurer, Paul Hittie, made this comment in a forum post on 10/27:

Quote from: Paul Hittie
Marti is paid a straight commission on her business advertising sales.  No salary, no selective-commissions or tiered commission rates.

I'm not sure why the Treasurer wouldn't be aware that Marti Pugh IS paid a salary in addition to a percentage based commission.

UFWDA does not disclose specifics on employment engagements or contracts.

As we discussed at SEMA, it is both my personal and professional opinion that transparency and accountability is paramount for member/donor supported organizations.  I've made the same comment in other threads on this forum, and based on responses from other UFWDA BOD members I incorrectly assumed that transparency was a priority.  I was informed at SEMA that the UFWDA leadership believes there are some things that should not be discussed with the general membership.

UFWDA is always open to opportunities to receive assistance on a volunteer basis. Clearly though, any offers are evaluated to ensure that the individual has experience that will benefit UFWDA and will be a good fit within the current team. Anybody who feels they have something to offer should direct that interest to the Executive Director, or myself, with a summary of interests/experience that can benefit UFWDA.

I have to question this statement. My own attempts to offer assistance were refused well before any personal discussions turned sour.  I was told to just send money.

There has been considerable concern raised over comments I recently made regarding and expected collection rate of 25% of some current receivables. UFWDA has not delivered any services against these receivables. When a commitment is made from a business to UFWDA, an invoice is issued which creates a receivable. Looking forward we expect a 25% payment on these receivables based on feedback from business supporters. The primary causes are budget cut backs or, in some cases, the closing of a business. The point of the comment was to illustrate the fact the supporting business dollars will become increasingly tight in the current economic environment. We always welcome support through membership, donation or the promotion of UFWDA to organizations and individuals through networking, the publishing of articles or positive comments over Internet forums.

I have offered and continue to offer volunteer assistance in collecting on these and any other unfulfilled business pledges.

I'm not condoning any behavior by a couple folks here the last couple weeks, but that statement right there raises my eyebrows and I actually have a problem with it.  I am and have been behind everything United has and is doing.  I thought United was a member owned and supported organization, and as such I can't understand that statement or policy.  The thing is I have no problem with what anyone is paid or has been paid.  It may not even be enough.  But to hide or keep this information a secret?  It's the principle of the matter, and EVERYTHING should be disclosed on request.  This is not a healthy track to be on IMO.  If I'm off base or I am misunderstanding this topic, then please correct me.

This comment mirrors my thoughts on the issue.

Keith, although this forum is primarily for the UFWDA members and through their membership fees they are de-facto shareholders, this is otherwise a fully public internet site.  I'm not so sure that the information you are suggesting should be in the full glare of the wider public, I know that if it was my income being high-lighted then I'd be unhappy (yes it's that low).  You need to give some credit to your BOD to manage those matters and understand that we do so with care and with appropriate advice.

Transparency and accountability should be the policy over a message of "trust us".

As Wayne mentioned in his commentary, if there are specific matters that members wish to discuss, he will speak with you.

Regrettably, I have found this statement to be incorrect.

I would like to bring this thread back to the original intent of receiving answers to some specific questions.  I will fill in the answers that were provided.  Please note necessary corrections for anything that is not accurate.

[quote auther=Steve Jackson]Is there a contractor at UFWDA who is paid a commission based on gross receipts?[/quote]

This questions was answered, and the stated answer is "No".  A 30% commission is paid for business membership sales, advertising sales, and "net proceeds" of organized events.

[quote auther=Steve Jackson]If business sponsorship pledges receive only 25% fulfillment, why doesn't UFWDA take advantage of volunteers offering their time to help with this problem?[/quote]

This question was answered, and the stated answer is "UFWDA is always open to opportunities to receive assistance on a volunteer basis. Clearly though, any offers are evaluated to ensure that the individual has experience that will benefit UFWDA and will be a good fit within the current team."

[quote auther=Steve Jackson]Why does UFWDA repeatedly claim it does not require any assistance in selling advertising or business memberships even though the production of The Voice is losing ~$38,000/year?*[/quote]

This question has not been answered except to say that this is a component of a long term plan. Please see the note at the end of this post.

Quote from: Steve Jackson
On a related topic, in response to a specific request for assistance from Carla and Paul, I require the following information.

Job descriptions for currently defined contractor and employee positions.

Copies of previously offered contractor RFP's, employment advertisements, and other solicitations for human resources.

Copies of existing contractor agreements in place for currently active contractors.

Copies of any proposed contractor agreements for unfulfilled positions (if any).

Copies of commission structure and other payment definition documents for current contractor positions (filled or unfilled).

None of this information was provided.

Here is the text of the request from Carla and seconded by Tom Sumner (I apologize, I referenced Paul instead of Tom):

Quote from: Carla Boucher
Can you please assist us in finding a contractor that will work for a base salary and would you please work with our Treasurer, Paul Hittie treasurer@ufwda.org in re-writing the 2009 budget to pay for this contractor?  Can you discuss what the base salary would need to be to attract someone?  We would sincerely appreciate your help with this undertaking.

Quote from: Tom Sumner
Steve I second that request. I too thank you for that undertaking. It would be very much appreciated with your expertise in this field.

At this point I am left to assume that the request made by Carla and Tom was put forward without expectation of acceptance or as some kind of sarcastic comment.  They made a request (which I interpreted as literal and official) for asssistance.  I accepted this request.  When I tried to collect the information required to complete the request for assistance, the information was not provided.  It seems particularly hard for someone to help out after they've already sent their money and want to donate some time.

It has gotten lost in all these discussions, so I'll reiterate a few points.

I worked for seven years as a consultant at a direct response marketing firm that caters exclusively to non-profit clients.

I offered services in general business operations, fundraising, marketing, data collection, trend analysis, branding, communications, print production, television targeting, and more.

I have worked the last four years as a private consultant continuing to work primarily with non-profits while expanding into for-profit markets.

I have seen first hand what can go right and what can go wrong in donor/member supported organizations.

I had a small window of free time where I tried to offer some assistance to UFWDA, specifically on business and ad sales.  I made this offer strictly as a volunteer trying to help an organization that protects the privelage of 4x4 recreation.  Admittedly, I can be very brash, but the "turf protecting" and stonewalling began well before our discussions became heated.  I was met with a response I've seen too many times at even the most well-intentioned non-profits.  I was told there is no need for any assistance in business membership sales or ad sales.  Every suggestion was met with rhetoric and canned responses defending the current course. I was told that UFWDA is concerned about funding, but then told that it needed no help in this area.  I was told that the lack of support was the result of user apathy rather than any problems with marketing or the message.  If this is how UFWDA operates, I fear that this organization is not reaching the potential that we all hope for and need.  I have received several comments supporting the concerns I have raised.  These comments have come from other associations, other UFWDA members, and even two UFWDA BOD members.

If someone is reading this and thinks I'm just here to cause "trouble" then you have no idea who I am.  I only have one objective with these discussions.  That objective is to protect 4x4 recreation on public lands through any means necessary.

So to sum up, I'm dissapointed with the lack of openness shown by UFWDA's leadership.  I would expect considerably more responsiveness from an organization howling about a lack of support from the same community it feels shouldn't be privy to the details of how it operates.  I continue to contend that those two conditions are related.

*Issues with the cost of The Voice:
I should make a correction to the figure noted.  A fat-fingered session at the calculator lead to "$38,000" when the correct number should be "$32,000".  This calculation was a surprise to the UFWDA leadership at SEMA.  It is based on the actual expenses and income for The Voice from the third quarter of 2007 through the second quarter of 2008 (4 issues).  Based on the numbers from that time period, the existing commission payment structure, and previous ad sales, net cost after production, commission, and advertising income is $32,000.  I look forward to seeing the actual numbers for 2008 if that information can be made available after the end of the year and prior to the 2009 meeting.

I have put forth that spending ~15% of UFWDA's total income on The Voice is a poor use of scarce resources.  $32K is money that could be spent elsewhere on any number of badly needed areas of improvement.  I have suggested that through a combination of increasing the ad to content ratio, reducing production costs, and reducing the number of pages, The Voice could become self-sustaining on a much faster schedule.

The arguments against this approach are reasonable and generally sound under different circumstances.  Under the circumstances existing at UFWDA, it is impossible to justify such an expenditure in my evaluation.  It is quite common for marketing budgets to be allocated to a publication to offset hard costs, but not in the neighborhood of 15% of total income.  Expecting the publication to grow into the cost makes perfect sense in an environment where the cost is 2-3% of total income.  There are many unquantifiable benefits provided by The Voice in its current form.  Meanwhile, there are quantifiable lost opportunities while The Voice is being paid for by the general fund.  I equate this strategy to buying stocks while you have credit card debt.  Despite any gains made in the market, those gains (and more) will be consumed by accruing interest.

That's my personal and professional evaluation.  I feel pretty strongly about it because of my concern for the cause in general.  I hate to see money wasted or incorrectly allocated when other more immediate opportunities exist.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2008, 08:50:23 am »

A response is posted above in this very same thread.  It was posted here, to put it in view of everyone.

As I was sitting there at the table when you came by the booth, and Wayne or the other BOD's present did not call anyone a disgruntled former employee.

Wayne did want to sit down with you and discuss these issues, but not while you were both standing at the booth.  Wayne tried to get you to move off to one of the side tables to talk, but did not wish to take the discussion there. 

Wayne did ask if you would be willing to submit a proposal on how to increase business memberships/sales and the same thing is posted above. 
In the other thread, I have asked if U4WDA would post the current ad for the "One Tank of Gas Donation'Challenge" that is in the e-News, you you can use the images that Tom has created if you need something smaller.  If you need something smaller, please pm me, and I can provide a link to them.

As a volunteer organization, I think we can always use some help, but as Wayne has mentioned, it has to be evaluated to ensure the help offered fits into what the organization is trying to do.  The offer is on the table for you to submit a proposal.  Please send it to Wayne, or me and I will send it to the rest of the BOD's for review.

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UFWDA Member #14102
Member of Cal4Wheel, Hanford Trail Busters, Rubicon 4WDA
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2008, 12:00:58 pm »

Considering there was only a Business development manager for 1/2 the year that's no surprise, prior to that there was minimal done by the operations manager at that time. 


John Stewart was the operations manager for just over a month prior to his departure.
If there was one prior to that, I am not aware of it. 
But this was also a change with the new business plan, and SOP's.

Prior to that, I am not sure how business memberships and ad's for the voice were sold.

Todd
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UFWDA Member #14102
Member of Cal4Wheel, Hanford Trail Busters, Rubicon 4WDA
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Bill Z
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2008, 02:44:20 pm »

Since Steve has chosen UFWDA's forums as a platform to dig into finances and to pry into where funding corners are cut and see if there are areas that are mismanaged as he firmly has stated over and again and we should all come together and take a good hard look at U4WDA (UTAH) as a unified mass and more so as a United group since we are UFWDA and U4WDA sees fit not to provide support to its members with the luxury of a forum.

Let us begin.

We already have established that U4WDA has denied its members support by having a public or private forum. This is usually done if an organization has something to hide and is mismanaging funding. Let us see if that could be the case here.

As a current member one of the things I have been told is "My dues are to help protect access to public lands". Let us go to the "Land Use" page on the U4WDA website at this link http://www.u4wda.org/index.php?p=landuse#news .

Now let us be very fair here....Copied are everything in "Land Use Issues"

Land Use Issues

Due to federal mandates, every BLM Field Office and Forest Service Unit will be revising their travel management plans and maps over the next two years. Now is the time to get involved if you want to protect 4x4 access on public lands! Find out about volunteer activities with U4WDA, or contribute to our legal defense fund.

In addition to our ongoing service and education activities, U4WDA is working on the following long-term land use issues affecting 4x4 access to public lands in Utah. Check this page often for the latest updates.

Moab Resource Management Plan (RMP)

Utah BLM Resource Management Plans (RMPs)

Uinta National Forest Motorized Travel Plan

Dump Bump and Lion's Back Closure

Five Mile Pass Motorized Travel Plan

Canaan Mountain Sawmill Road Closure

 

Moab Resource Management Plan (RMP), Moab BLM Field Office
The Moab Draft Resource Management Plan (DRMP) is out, and the public comment period is over! Many thanks to everyone who took the time to review the analysis and submit a comment. Also, thanks to Blueribbon Coalition, Red Rock 4 Wheelers, and Moab Friends-For-Wheelin' for contributing analysis for the DRMP.

Click here to view U4WDA's official comment letter to the BLM regarding the Moab Draft Resource Management Plan.

View our map comparisons here to see how different alternatives affect your favorite routes.

Visit the BLM's Moab Field Office DRMP/DEIS website:

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/moab/planning/draft_rmp_eia.html

Blueribbon Coalition (BRC) worked with U4WDA, RR4W, MFFW, and other groups to analyze the new RMP, and provide information to the motorized community for comments when the time is right. Their analysis and input was invaluable in getting the right information out to the public.

BRC has setup a special way for concerned users to get involved called the "Moab Access Partner" program. For a monthly pledge of $10 for one one year, you'll receive a Moab Access Partner t-shirt, bumper sticker, and quarterly updates on the process. It's a great way to get involved and keep Moab open for the enjoyment of everyone. Although the comment period is closed, there will still be a lot of work to do. Contribute today!

Click here to become a Moab Access Partner today!

 

 

Utah BLM Resource Management Plans (RMPs), Multiple Locations
Along with the Moab Draft Resource Management plan, there are 5 other Utah BLM RMPs in the public comment phase right now! Please review the information below, and submit your comments to the BLM before the deadlines listed.


Price Field Office: Comment Period Ended December 13, 2007  <--- NOTE Only mention of it. Expired in 2007

Vernal Field Office: Comment Period Ended January 3, 2008

Kanab Field Office: Comment Period Ended January 10, 2008
View the U4WDA Kanab RMP Fact Sheet, or the detailed Alternative B maps by USGS Quandrangle. Examine U4WDA's official comment letter here. Download the U4WDA Kanab RMP Talking Points to assist you in submitting your comment to the BLM.

Richfield Field Office: Comment Period Ends January 24, 2008
View the U4WDA Richfield RMP Talking Points to assist you in submitting your comment to the BLM. The Richfield Field Office contains some popular OHV destinations that are in danger of being closed permanently under this RMP. Please take time to review the information and submit comments!

Monticello Field Office: Comment Period Ends February 4, 200
 

Blueribbon Coalition (BRC) has built a Utah RMP website with information and analysis regarding these five RMPs.


 Uinta National Forest Motorized Travel Plan, Uinta National Forest
The Uinta National Forest will be publishing a new motorized travel plan in the summer of 2007. Details of the new travel plan are not available at this time. U4WDA will review the travel plan when it becomes available.
 

Dump Bump and Lion's Back Closure, Utah Trust Lands
The Moab icons of Dump Bump and Lion's Back have been closed, forever. These obstacles, along with a portion of the Hells Revenge trail, are situated on land owned by the State of Utah School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration (SITLA). The land had been under lease by a campground operator, but it was recently sold to a developer planning to build condominiums on the property. There was no right-of-way established with the state or county, so there is little to be done about this issue. What happened here will someday happen to "Little Moab" as it is also owned by SITLA.

A detailed article on this land use issue appeared in the Summer 2007 edition of The Compass.
 

Five Mile Pass Motorized Travel Plan, Salt Lake BLM Field Office
The BLM Salt Lake Field Office manages a huge portion of land in northwest Utah. They plan on releasing their draft management plan in the summer of 2007.

As of now, we are not sure if the popular rock-crawling trails known as Rattlesnake and Constrictor will remain open under the new plan. Tooele County has expressed interest in claiming several roads to protect OHV access, and might be a valuable allie in preserving the current access.

The special recreation area known as Five Mile Pass will be undergoing several changes. First, the open travel designation will be removed, and a new policy of designated routes only will be enforced. Second, many of the spider web of trails will be closed for future travel.

If you would like to help U4WDA work on preserving access in this area, we would like to hear from you. Please contact us.

 
 Canaan Mountain Sawmill Road Closure, Cedar City BLM Field Office
The Canaan Mountain Sawmill Road is a historic route in Southern Utah. Canaan Mountain is east of Hurricane, and north of Hildale. The road has been in use by motorized users since the 1950's. The road was originally established to serve a sawmill built on the mountain.

In the mid-70's the BLM closed the road by declaring the surrounding land a Wilderness Study Area. However, the road has seen continuous use up to this day.

In 2006, Dan Jessop of Apple Valley was issued a citation for driving on the road. Rather than just pay the fine, Dan has decided to fight the premise of the roads closure. Washington County claims the road under RS 2477, and a victory in the case would be a major benefit to the motorized community across the West. The law is on our side, but we can only win the case if Dan receives the financial support to keep fighting and pay legal costs.

To donate to the Canaan Mountain Defense fund via credit card or Pay-Pal, click here. To donate via check, send your donation to: Dan Jessop, 6890 E Apple Valley Dr, Apple Valley, UT 84737. Make checks payable to attorneys "Jones Waldo."

A detailed article on this land use issue appeared in the Summer 2007 edition of The Compass. The article can be downloaded here.


Nope...Nothing about Price Trails being in peril! But wait! Is it true? Let us look

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=730979

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/res/feedback.3.html

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=59714

Say it isn't so! You mean that? Yes...I mean that U4WDA did not post on their own website or to their members PAID members that they needed to ban together and save Price Trails.

What else you ask is amiss on U4WDA website and their members money if you join?

Note the sad sad note it tells you about Public Land Use and how and what they do with your money and how they protect you.

U4WDA Open Access Fund

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of money to defend motorized access on public lands. U4WDA supports legal groups like Utah Shared Access Alliance, Blue Ribbon Coalition, and others with financial donations to conduct specific legal action. Money donated or allocated for the U4WDA Open Access Fund is reserved for support of legal action in Utah that is intended to protect 4x4 access to public lands. Donate to the U4WDA Open Access Fund now.

Note they do NOT include UFWDA in their content of whom they are now dragging through the mud and have been for an extreme long period of time if you dig through Mr. Jacksons posts. Hmmm...for what again?

The entire point of the matter of this post is that if anyone would like to dig and pick apart an association I pretty much believe we can tear U4WDA to shreds on where the members money is going and why and by bringing it to each and every one of that associations members attention one by one. So if indeed Mr. Jackson and whom ever else would like to keep engaging in childish engagements of flaming in the forum then banning him from ours is what is needed to take place. This has gone on long enough. Let them build their own forum and play in it for awhile.

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 02:49:08 pm by Bill Z » Logged
Chris Hannis
Twin City Bushwackers
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2008, 06:32:50 pm »

John Stewart was the operations manager for just over a month prior to his departure.
If there was one prior to that, I am not aware of it. 
But this was also a change with the new business plan, and SOP's.

Prior to that, I am not sure how business memberships and ad's for the voice were sold.

Todd
Last year less money was paid out in commission sales than to any contractor on a fixed rate.

Again not a suprize that the above is true, hard to pay out commission on sales in a larger dollar amount than any contractor at a fixed rate when there isn't one for 1/2 the year and minimal prior to that!
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2008, 09:28:13 pm »

Chris

Your point being what?
Who did ad's for the Voice prior to Marti?
Marti has done a fabulous job increasing ad sales for UFWDA! 
Who else has done that for the association?
Any of the BOD's, other contractors?  No with the exception of Marti!

The Va Wheel-in was organaized and thought of by Marti.  Who else thought of doing something like that for this association?  No one that I can think of!!!

Todd
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Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2008, 11:29:51 pm »


Unfortunately, it takes a lot of money to defend motorized access on public lands. U4WDA supports legal groups like Utah Shared Access Alliance, Blue Ribbon Coalition, and others with financial donations to conduct specific legal action. Money donated or allocated for the U4WDA Open Access Fund is reserved for support of legal action in Utah that is intended to protect 4x4 access to public lands. Donate to the U4WDA Open Access Fund now.

Note they do NOT include UFWDA in their content of whom they are now dragging through the mud and have been for an extreme long period of time if you dig through Mr. Jacksons posts. Hmmm...for what again?


Take a minute and look a little closer...  Right on the Front Page - United IS listed along with BRC, USA-ALL and Tread Lightly

or you can click this link...   http://www.u4wda.org/   Top Left on the page where it says  "We Proudly Support"     

And yes - we donated $1000.00 to United Four Wheel Drive Association in March 2008 - Don't beleive me? ask Gene Ockert, he was there at EJS where we raised those funds.   Those funds were not for membership, wasn't for advertising and it certainly wasn't "in-kind" for any work that United was doing. 

I'll admit that our Land Use page is a little stale, and needs to be updated with some recent information about what we are doing in Utah.  - the absence of things on our web-site does not mean that nothing is being done by our members and member clubs.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 11:36:49 pm by Steve Edmunds » Logged
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