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UFWDA Community Forum  |  UFWDA General Discussion  |  General UFWDA Topics  |  Topic: True-or-False? Is 30% of UFWDA income paid in commission? « previous next »
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Author Topic: True-or-False? Is 30% of UFWDA income paid in commission?  (Read 2291 times)
Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association
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« on: November 02, 2008, 04:29:07 pm »

As President of U4WDA, I have been reading a number of threads on the forum that FAIL to answer this quesiton.

Until this question can be fully answered, and all of the questions around "any and all commissions" paid on behalf of UFWDA - I have to challendge the Board of directors to respond to this in the most expedient manner possible. The official position of U4WDA is not to support other organizations with such practices.  Since I'm just finding out about this issue, U4WDA is unable to contribute anything to UFWDA until the policy is fully disclosed.

As an individual, I struggle with supporting an organization that employs any commission-based fundraising strategy - especially one that is not fully disclosed to the contributor. 

Respectfully,
Steve Edmunds
President, Utah 4-Wheel Drive Association
www.u4wda.org

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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 08:08:45 pm »

Steve

I also answered this question in Steve Jacksons thread here:  http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2391.0

But to recap,

No,

Marti is paid a commission on business ad revenue that she generates.  No commission is paid to her on income from donations from individuals.

Todd
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 09:58:00 pm »

What about raffles?
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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Peter Vahry
UFWDA International Vice-President
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 10:40:11 pm »

Out of curiosity... how many presidents does U4WDA have? We seem to have two people using that 'by-line' on this forum.  Maybe some housekeeping could be done?

Peter
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Bill Z
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 10:45:51 pm »

This is getting completely out of hand and over the top annoying. It is coming from an association that isn't even supporting UFWDA but coming in as individual members and griping but giving the appearance they are a concerned highly invested association. When you donate just enough money to stick your upper lip out it don't mean you can flap it louder than the others. It means you did good and you can smile bigger.

As President I have found that ....blah blah blah....As President why don't you fully inform your members to the benefits of supporting UFWDA? Why don't you point out such accomplishments as Tellico? Are we going to suffer you two Steve's nit picking on a daily basis forever? Do we have to live this daily drama that you all dribble out until you finally have taken to a level that you feel you have some satisfactory level of accomplishment of? You have everyone wondering what it is you even want!

You have been given answers on every level which none are good enough. You take every answer and turn it into a new scenario and bank shot it over into a new arena. I for one am sick of it guys! Completely and utterly sick and tired of it. Why don't you act like the rest of the caring volunteer members across the land and be grateful and help out without your mouth running 90 miles an hour?

STOP IT ALREADY!!!!!
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 05:58:59 pm »

This is getting completely out of hand and over the top annoying. It is coming from an association that isn't even supporting UFWDA but coming in as individual members and griping but giving the appearance they are a concerned highly invested association. When you donate just enough money to stick your upper lip out it don't mean you can flap it louder than the others. It means you did good and you can smile bigger.

As President I have found that ....blah blah blah....As President why don't you fully inform your members to the benefits of supporting UFWDA? Why don't you point out such accomplishments as Tellico? Are we going to suffer you two Steve's nit picking on a daily basis forever? Do we have to live this daily drama that you all dribble out until you finally have taken to a level that you feel you have some satisfactory level of accomplishment of? You have everyone wondering what it is you even want!

You have been given answers on every level which none are good enough. You take every answer and turn it into a new scenario and bank shot it over into a new arena. I for one am sick of it guys! Completely and utterly sick and tired of it. Why don't you act like the rest of the caring volunteer members across the land and be grateful and help out without your mouth running 90 miles an hour?

STOP IT ALREADY!!!!!

Part of what you are saying is untrue.  Answers have not been provided which is why clarification continues to be pursued.

I am an individual member of UFWDA.  It is the right of all members to know how their donations are being spent.  I am also the past president of U4WDA, so I do bring some historical context to our discussions here.

Additionally, this discussion began when I offered my own volunteer time and professional experience to help UFWDA collect money for business sponsorships and ad sales.  The attitude of UFWDA representatives that no help was necessary lead the discussion to where it is today.  Then I was asked to help write a job description and payment structure to separate the business development function from the sponsorship/ad sales function.  I requested information to fulfill this assignment.  That information has not been provided, but I am assured it is being assembled.

Lastly, U4WDA does communicate to its members about the work and necessity of UFWDA.  The information provided to us is clearly not enough to make the case to users in Utah.  I offered to arrange for UFWDA to have a page in our next magazine (and magazines issues going forward) so UFWDA could make their own case.  Again, this offer was ignored.

So, if that sounds good to you, then I apologize for wasting your time and I suggest you don't read any of my posts.  If you have similar questions or wonder why assistance is being shunned, then please join the discussion.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Bill Z
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 10:15:04 pm »

Fellow, there has been plenty of us watching the havoc you been wreaking and it has nothing to do with what you are stating. BTW. Nice save on the Past President handle after you changed it yesterday. Two of you chipping away at the stone with the same handle wasn't going to shine through so well.

For all the suffering you have put us the members through with your yammering over spilt milk I think it is time you stopped. We all do have a right to know what our money is spent on and if we all want to know as bad as you we would have lined up here and started a long line of yeah..this fellow is right! Where is our money? Guess what? We all know what is happening behind the scenes and we trust the people we voted in and it just plain isn't that important to be torn apart to get at a few mistakes here and there to see if we can explode the entire place.

You on the other hand seem to have some vendetta or a jolly good ol time on a daily basis digging into places where there isn't anything so where there isn't anything you make something up and when that don't work you offer up another distasteful dish full of well I otta look into and well if I had gotten an honest answer when, and then there was when you, and then what happened was, and guess what? We ..... the ......readers......and.......the .......members......are........sick.......and.......tired.......of........it.

Our entire club sat around our last meeting going over the garbage you have been posting. Did they all want to logon and post in rebuttal? No. The majority rarely come to these forums. The rest that do only look for updates. The ones that have been coming say they donít care to waste their time responding to an idiot. They all were asked if they did respond what would they say? You are reading it. That is one clubís opinion.

Take your good intentions to your state of Utah and show the entire membership of each club in the state how they can benefit from being members of UFWDA then take your U4WDA and utilize it in a professional and contributing manner and show us other members across the nation that you have something to offer first before you run off at the mouth with teaching other folks lessons in how to make and save money in other peoples organizations when you don't do it in your own and then we will all be so proud of how you set such a very good example we will all run to you with open arms and want you to teach us your ways!

Until then! Please stop! It really is so unbecoming and childish.
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 11:25:30 pm »

Please stop.

Read this: http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2436.0

I understand your concerns, but this isn't going to solve anything.
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Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association
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President - Utah 4-Wheel Drive Association


« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2008, 05:45:42 pm »

Out of curiosity... how many presidents does U4WDA have? We seem to have two people using that 'by-line' on this forum.  Maybe some housekeeping could be done?

Peter
Only one...   I had hoped to clarify that in this post... http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=2391.msg11026#msg11026


I will express a thank you to Marti - for sitting down and clarifying a great deal about this topic. It is more clear to me now - where it was not before our face to face discussion.  I sincerely hope that Marti or someone at United can communicate this same information to the remaining members / delegates / associations as well, as I have gone back and re-read these forum discussions and still do not see this information available.

So next time U4WDA donates hard earned funds to United, (not membership money, and not advertising money) we know whether it is subject to commissions.   The heart of the matter for U4WDA is - we donate to other land use organizations, and we have found in the past that our hard earned funds went towards paying commissions.  We have set our own standards going forward that help insure that we don't offer financial support when it ends up paying commissions against our wishes.  Simply put - we want 100% of our fund raising efforts to go towards our mission of keeping public lands open.

... now knowing specifically which part of United's budget is going towards paying commissions - my questions are now satisfied.
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2008, 07:02:27 pm »

Fellow, there has been plenty of us watching the havoc you been wreaking and it has nothing to do with what you are stating. BTW. Nice save on the Past President handle after you changed it yesterday. Two of you chipping away at the stone with the same handle wasn't going to shine through so well.

For all the suffering you have put us the members through with your yammering over spilt milk I think it is time you stopped. We all do have a right to know what our money is spent on and if we all want to know as bad as you we would have lined up here and started a long line of yeah..this fellow is right! Where is our money? Guess what? We all know what is happening behind the scenes and we trust the people we voted in and it just plain isn't that important to be torn apart to get at a few mistakes here and there to see if we can explode the entire place.

You on the other hand seem to have some vendetta or a jolly good ol time on a daily basis digging into places where there isn't anything so where there isn't anything you make something up and when that don't work you offer up another distasteful dish full of well I otta look into and well if I had gotten an honest answer when, and then there was when you, and then what happened was, and guess what? We ..... the ......readers......and.......the .......members......are........sick.......and.......tired.......of........it.

Our entire club sat around our last meeting going over the garbage you have been posting. Did they all want to logon and post in rebuttal? No. The majority rarely come to these forums. The rest that do only look for updates. The ones that have been coming say they donít care to waste their time responding to an idiot. They all were asked if they did respond what would they say? You are reading it. That is one clubís opinion.

Take your good intentions to your state of Utah and show the entire membership of each club in the state how they can benefit from being members of UFWDA then take your U4WDA and utilize it in a professional and contributing manner and show us other members across the nation that you have something to offer first before you run off at the mouth with teaching other folks lessons in how to make and save money in other peoples organizations when you don't do it in your own and then we will all be so proud of how you set such a very good example we will all run to you with open arms and want you to teach us your ways!

Until then! Please stop! It really is so unbecoming and childish.


You are truly misinformed.

There still has been no response to the questions I've posed in my request for clarification thread.  There also has been no response to the questions about a $6K commission for donations at the Wheel-In.  However, I was told that UFWDA is doing fine and is not in need of any assistance, so I will be leaving this discussion.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
Chris Hannis
Twin City Bushwackers
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2008, 07:39:27 pm »

I will express a thank you to Marti - for sitting down and clarifying a great deal about this topic. It is more clear to me now - where it was not before our face to face discussion.  I sincerely hope that Marti or someone at United can communicate this same information to the remaining members / delegates / associations as well, as I have gone back and re-read these forum discussions and still do not see this information available.

UFWDA - Is someone going to post this info for the rest of us that were not able to sit down with Marti at SEMA?

Thanks!
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Steve Edmunds
Utah Four Wheel Drive Association
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President - Utah 4-Wheel Drive Association


« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2008, 11:37:35 pm »

This is getting completely out of hand and over the top annoying. It is coming from an association that isn't even supporting UFWDA but coming in as individual members and griping but giving the appearance they are a concerned highly invested association.

Interesting to see you have all of this past knowledge of U4 and our history of significant donations to United every spring - especially since you are a member on this forum for only a few minutes.   Oh well, I can only guess what your real identity is...   How was the SEMA Show?   

Maybe you need to go back and research U4WDA's support of UFWDA a little closer.     

Needless to say,  while U4WDA does not "pressure" its members to belong to United - since U4WDA was already contributing as a member association and sent additional donations each year.   We continue to encourage all of our members to support Blue Ribbon Coalition, USA-ALL as well as United.     

« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 11:40:19 pm by Steve Edmunds » Logged
Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 11:45:22 pm »

Yeah, I've got to respond.  I think this isn't a real person.

We all do have a right to know what our money is spent on...

Then we agree!   Smiley

I hope you will join with me in seeking answers to the questions that have not yet received a response.

Where is our money? Guess what? We all know what is happening behind the scenes and we trust the people we voted in...

Great!  Then you can give me the details on income, expenses and commissions related to the Wheel-In.  That would be greatly appreciated.

...and it just plain isn't that important to be torn apart to get at a few mistakes here and there to see if we can explode the entire place.

No one that I'm aware of would like to "explode the entire place".  We ask questions and have discussions in an attempt to better position our organizations and ourselves in the fight for 4x4 recreation.

You on the other hand seem to have some vendetta or a jolly good ol time on a daily basis digging into places where there isn't anything...

I don't know if there "isn't anything" as answers are hard to come by.

...so where there isn't anything you make something up...

What has been made up?

...and when that don't work you offer up another distasteful dish full of well I otta look into and well if I had gotten an honest answer when, and then there was when you, and then what happened was, and guess what?

Huh?

Our entire club sat around our last meeting going over the garbage you have been posting. Did they all want to logon and post in rebuttal? No. The majority rarely come to these forums. The rest that do only look for updates. The ones that have been coming say they donít care to waste their time responding to an idiot. They all were asked if they did respond what would they say? You are reading it. That is one clubís opinion.

I'm interested to find out what club it is that chose you as their spokesperson on this issue.

Take your good intentions to your state of Utah...

I did, and after I broke through the entrenched, tenured attitudes I encountered we did make considerable progress.

...and show the entire membership of each club in the state how they can benefit from being members of UFWDA...

I've tried, but discussions like the ones that have taken place over the last few weeks make it very difficult.  Users in Utah like to ask questions and receive answers.  I offered to arrange a full page in the U4WDA magazine for UFWDA to make its own case.  Absolutely no response.

...then take your U4WDA and utilize it in a professional and contributing manner and show us other members across the nation that you have something to offer first...

Our 1000+ members in Utah think U4WDA has something to offer.  We offered quite a bit on the 5 BLM RMP's that came down in the last 12 months.  UFWDA was a no-show.

...before you run off at the mouth with teaching other folks lessons in how to make and save money in other peoples organizations...

Just trying to help.

...when you don't do it in your own and then we will all be so proud of how you set such a very good example we will all run to you with open arms and want you to teach us your ways!

Put your jogging shoes on.  We've had great success at U4WDA using some of the ideas I've tried to espouse here on this forum.  I'd gladly offer the same level of advice and experience to you and your club as well.  I'm up for anything that will help the cause.

Until then! Please stop! It really is so unbecoming and childish.

Thanks.
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Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2008, 08:23:35 am »

Steve

Did Utah ask for help with the 5 BLM RMP's? 
I know that I did turn in comments myself on all 5, and depending on when those were started, I would have listed UFWDA, Director of Environmental Affairs on all 5. 

I personally track over 20 different issues on a weekly basis, to include everything from the issues with the 12 national forests and travel management/route designation here in California. 
BLM issues in Nevada and Utah, Forest Service issues in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, along with what Carla has done in Tellico, and Cape Hatteras. 
I volunteer all of my time, and spend about 30 to 40 hours a week on research for the issues, or pull up old info for comments I submit.

Could you please put the "One Tank of Gas Donation/Challenge" in your associations newsletter.  There is a pdf version in the current e-News.

Todd
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Steve Jackson
Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2008, 08:43:02 pm »

Steve

Did Utah ask for help with the 5 BLM RMP's?

I thought UFWDA was THE go-to org for defending 4x4 access across the country, I wasn't aware this needed to be requested.  The federal register is available to everyone.

Jack Johnston has been trying to reach someone at UFWDA regarding the Canaan Mt suit going on in southern Utah.  He has reported at the last 2 board meetings that there has been no response.  Any help making that contact would be nice.

I know that I did turn in comments myself on all 5, and depending on when those were started, I would have listed UFWDA, Director of Environmental Affairs on all 5.

Excellent!

I personally track over 20 different issues on a weekly basis, to include everything from the issues with the 12 national forests and travel management/route designation here in California. 
BLM issues in Nevada and Utah, Forest Service issues in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, along with what Carla has done in Tellico, and Cape Hatteras. 
I volunteer all of my time, and spend about 30 to 40 hours a week on research for the issues, or pull up old info for comments I submit.

Most of us are volunteers.  I forgot to bring cookies to SEMA.

Could you please put the "One Tank of Gas Donation/Challenge" in your associations newsletter.  There is a pdf version in the current e-News.

That version is low res.  I need a full size, 300dpi PDF emailed to steve at u4wda.org.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 08:50:01 pm by Steve Jackson » Logged

Steve Jackson
Past President, Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association
http://www.u4wda.org
http://www.utahoffroad.com
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