Author Topic: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information  (Read 3507 times)

kf6zpl

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Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« on: March 05, 2007, 05:58:26 pm »
I am looking to collect some information relating to trails lost over the years.

If you know of a trail lost to 4x4 opportunity, please provide the name, location, length and date the trail was closed.

kf6zpl

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2007, 11:22:08 pm »
I find it amazing that people can spew on for hours about trails being closed and when given a chance to go on record about their issues, they can't be bothered to speak up.

Come on, guys and gals, IF YOU REALLY have LOST some fantastic trail, now is the time to speak up.

BTW, this is not something I am asking for that will be buried in a pile of email, Primedia is researching for a story about lost opportunity over the years.

Now is your time to step up and speak about your lost opportunity.

Offline Dave Logan

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 05:45:03 am »
John,
I'm working on it.  What is your deadline?  I'm off to help with our annual Tellico clean up this weekend.

In Georgia alone, we have lost Rich Mountain Road, Bell Mountain Road, and at least 2 OHV trail Sytems in the last few years to closure by the US Forest Service.  The Forest Service is trying to close the Anderson Creek OHV trail system now.

The reality is in our area, the National Forest Land Managers have little interest in keeping OHV trails open.  They consider them a nuisance.

In my latest issue of 4WD and Sport Utility, I read about the cooperative relationship between the Western Slope 4 Wheelers and the US Forest Service / BLM. 

I'm envious...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you talk to them.

Offline Keith Holman

  • Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association
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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 06:39:35 pm »
Old Long Run Trail (officially designated as the Hogs Run trail)
Dry River District, George Washington NF. Rawley Springs VA
Length about 5 miles.
Loss was Aug of 2004 or 2005

Other trails in that same district are being "incrementally lost". Example Kephart Run. Each time I go there, the "trail ends here" sign is a bit coser to pavement. In 2002, it was 4 miles long. In 2004, about 2.5 miles.
What are you supposed to do when you see an "endangered" animal eating an "endangered" plant?
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Offline Chris Hannis

  • Twin City Bushwackers
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Re: Lost 4x4 opportunity information
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2007, 06:15:55 pm »
A large tract of land is no longer available here in Wisconsin, that was once owned by Nekoosa Paper and I believe it is now Owned by Storo Enso. Paper company land for tree harvesting. Access was closed about 1988. recently it has been opened to ATV's but the fire lanes are off limits to street licensed vehicles
"You get what you put in and people get what they desirve" Kidd Rock

Offline Chris Hannis

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2007, 06:30:13 pm »
Another lost opprotunity has been the Machickanee flowage area, Near Abrams and Stiles WI. lost about 1988, or '89. this site was quite close to Green Bay.
"You get what you put in and people get what they desirve" Kidd Rock

Offline Chris Hannis

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2007, 06:33:48 pm »
Wisconsin Again Clark and Jackson County Forest roads used to be open also most are bermed or gated now. The ATV's use the Snowmobile trails but the fire Lanes have all been closed off to Trucks.
"You get what you put in and people get what they desirve" Kidd Rock

Offline Chris Hannis

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2007, 06:38:59 pm »
Another Wisconsin Site lost, Is the Kickapoo River Valley Near LaFarge WI. this area the Army Corp of Enginieers was planning to flood some burial sites I think is what stopped it from being flooded but it was given to the state of WI and they made it a wild life area. The only motorized vehicles allowed are snowmobiles I think.
"You get what you put in and people get what they desirve" Kidd Rock

Offline Pat Brower

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 07:27:18 pm »
You're talking about hundreds, if not thousands, of miles of trail that were closed LONG before GPS.

There were never maps of the vast majority of them, making discussion virtually impossible.
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HT1

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2007, 03:43:43 am »
There are many roads that can be seen from Google Earth, but no maps show they are open.  We have lost access to trails on some Plum Creek lands in Montana and Forest Service land.  Again, you can see them from Google, but too many to identify which ones are closed.

Offline Todd Ockert

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2007, 04:10:23 pm »
There are many roads that can be seen from Google Earth, but no maps show they are open.  We have lost access to trails on some Plum Creek lands in Montana and Forest Service land.  Again, you can see them from Google, but too many to identify which ones are closed.

Can you overlay the google earth map with a forest service map to see what ones have been closed?
If you do not know the names of the old trails, some of the old timers may. 

If you can not find a name for these old trails, the FS may know the answer.  But they may get tight lipped once they have an idea what you are doing?

Just some possibilities.

Todd
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Offline Jim Mazzola

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 02:47:32 pm »
John,
Just as Pat B indicated, In Michigan in 1991, P.A. 451 was passed which made every forest road that required 4WD Illegal. Without the benefit of any maps, as the DNR never made any to document the existing conditions.We have no idea of what we had then -vs- what we have now. Best guess would be 100's of miles.
jim 

HT1

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2007, 03:29:52 pm »
Can you overlay the google earth map with a forest service map to see what ones have been closed?
If you do not know the names of the old trails, some of the old timers may. 

It is not so easy to overlay due to imprecise differences in size/scale.  But, it is fairly easy to correlate relative to other known roads.  The problem is there are too many to choose from for an individual to identify.  There are many miles of roads that I have never been on but can see them from the photos.

As an example, the Lolo National Forest map show many miles of roads with restrictions with most of them closed year long to motorized recreation. Get a copy of that map and you will see what I mean.

If you can not find a name for these old trails, the FS may know the answer.  But they may get tight lipped once they have an idea what you are doing?

Just some possibilities.

Todd

Actually, our club is working closely with the local FS to modify some roads to include "Challenge Features" and to open up previously closed roads specifically for OHV use.  We are planning a state wide conservation project over this Memorial Day weekend to do some of this work. The FS will be there to help. We have obtained some funds from other clubs in our state association and a few businesses to help fund heavy equipment rentals and fuel.  The FS guy here is very cooperative and is happy to work with us. Neither of us has anything to hide.  However, with a small group of motivated people, we can only focus on certain limited areas.



Offline Michael Forte

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2007, 04:29:59 pm »
I'm so new here in South Texas that I can't say what used to be open but so much land is privately owned and most trails that are or would be 4WD usable are on private land. The Border Patrol is the only one allowed to access many trails here as far as I know.
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Offline Terry Rust

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Re: Lost 4x4 opprotunity information
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2007, 11:08:10 am »
John, I think this'll need to be defined a bit, I can think of wntire areas lost with multiple discrete trails/roads within. Start with the Robledo Mountains area of NM, the Texas Rivers, etc. Every wildfire closes miles of roads under an emergency closure and darn few reopen as you know.

One  way to get an idea is to look at total wilderness and WSA designation since 64 as a function of total public lands and get a rough order percentage of public lands lost. Might be damn depressing though....