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UFWDA Community Forum  |  UFWDA General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Supporting United « previous next »
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Author Topic: Supporting United  (Read 8631 times)
9ersgirl
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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2007, 05:41:57 pm »

Are you asking for legal assistance from UFWDA.† If you are, Please contact Carla Boucher for Guidance


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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2007, 12:31:38 am »

Somehow we need to sell to one of the 5 sense's to get people to buy into United.
Sight, hearing, smelling, touch and tasting are what we need to sell to somehow. 

Obviously, if we loose access to the trail, we will no longer be able to smell the clean air, hear the birds, touch the trees except for the ones at the park down the street, taste the fresh air with a slight seasoning of dust, or see the wild animals. 

I will get more indepth on this later if anyone wants it.

I think we all have some great ideas that need to be consolidated and put into one big pile. 
Because every person is different, what it takes to get me excited about keeping trails open is different than for someone else. 

Todd
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kf6zpl
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2007, 01:21:36 am »

Sounds like a "brainstorming" session.....

Todd, you have head Del's rant and you have hear mine.

Basically, we are a couple of old guys with a message.  How do we translate that into a new generation language???

There exists knowledge and widom. There is a generation gap. How do we cross the "next meridian" and bring the message to the younger generation in terms they understand???

We want to perserve opportunity.  How do we preserve opportunity?  How do we get people to become involved?

There are several layers of involvment. How many people are wiling to become involved?

There are resources to train you in what you should know to become involved.

The resources are there. Who wants to partake?Huh

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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2007, 10:24:46 am »

John

You are right about us being a bunch of old guys with a message.  I wish I had the answer to that million dollar question?
How many times do we go to an event, and the chair and all the others involved with organizing it, are the older members in the clubs?  The more these events go on, the same people are organizing them.  How do we get the younger members of our clubs involved to lead?  I think this may be a by-product of our society today.  We are having problems in the Military with getting the younger ones to lead.  They want to be friends and not leaders. 
Leading is a tough job!  Because if things go good, you may not get all the recognition for having a good event, and if things go bad, people are quick to point the finger and blame you. 
I have been in a leadership position in the Navy for over 15 years.  Leadership is different in the military then with a group of volunteers.  Most of us here can attest to that.  With the volunteers, we as leaders need to take care of our volunteers, and groom them into leaders also.  Some are born leaders, and others we will have to take under our wing, and show or give them guidance.
I think in this process, we can start to show others that it is not hard to be a leader.  You as a leader need to know when to praise someone, and when to chew some butt, and how to do both effectively. 

Going back to Johns other statement, about how to get to the younger (ME) generation.  They want to know what is in it for ME!
What do I get out of my involveMEnt here? 
Do we find a catchy phrase that will catch their attention with some nice posters?  Wish I had the answer and could get more people involved and participating. 
I have friends into Quads and Dirt bikes, that are not associated with any group.  I ask them what are they going to do when all the trails are closed, where will they ride?  They look at me with the deer in the head lights, and tell me that will never happen.  If they are not involved, their favorite area will become closed. 
How do we get these people involved?  Show them the wins we have had in different areas.

We all could go on and on about this issue. 
Any good ideas, please post them up so we all can make comments about them.  We need ideas, and if we combine the things that are working good for some in different areas, we all can try the different methods.

Thanks

Todd
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Steve Jackson
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2007, 03:41:53 pm »

Going back to Johns other statement, about how to get to the younger (ME) generation.† They want to know what is in it for ME!
What do I get out of my involveMEnt here?

Ok, now we're connecting.  This is what I'm talking about.

Let's backtrack.

In reference to John's comment about how the resources to get involved (training, documentation, etc) are available if it is sought after, that's where the cycle ends for me.  The cycle begins by just piquing the interest, planting the seed, and getting a donation (membership).  Once they're on your membership roster and you're sending them materials, we hope that their interest will mature to the point where they will seek out the resources John has mentioned and become working-volunteers and leaders.  Getting them to that point is a whole other problem, and what I'm focusing on in this discussion is that initial capture.  That initial spark that makes them aware of the war being waged against motorized access.

Now back to the "Me" generation.  This is what I've been trying to get at.  Saying "it's the right thing to do" doesn't work on this generation.  Saying, "get a free ps3 game with every membership" is what works (just an example).

We've all seen it.  The same people who won't give a $50 donation will pay $250 to participate in a large scale organized run.  The same people who won't donate $1 will buy a $5 raffle ticket to win an '07 Rubicon.

Is this making sense, or am I screaming at the wall?

On to another point brought up (geez, I wish this freebie forum had multi-quote capabilities) about getting younger people involved.  I've noticed that there's an "old-boys culture" at many organizations and clubs that prohibits new, young volunteers from getting involved.  My own experience of getting involved is a sad story of elitism and exclusion.  Only my stubborness kept me into it until I could break into the "old-boys network."  Unfortunately, most younger volunteers won't go through that, and it's a damn shame.  When volunteers show up, and they are greeted with comments like, "That's nothing new, we already tried that idea and it was a disaster, we won't be doing that again," or, "You just don't know how things work,"  It's no wonder we're where we are.  Since becoming President of U4WDA, my number one priority is attracting new working-volunteers to the board of directors.  That starts with having an open culture that nurtures new ideas instead of just squashing them.

Do we find a catchy phrase that will catch their attention with some nice posters?† Wish I had the answer and could get more people involved and participating.†
I have friends into Quads and Dirt bikes, that are not associated with any group.† I ask them what are they going to do when all the trails are closed, where will they ride?† They look at me with the deer in the head lights, and tell me that will never happen.† If they are not involved, their favorite area will become closed.†
How do we get these people involved?† Show them the wins we have had in different areas.

We all could go on and on about this issue.†
Any good ideas, please post them up so we all can make comments about them.† We need ideas, and if we combine the things that are working good for some in different areas, we all can try the different methods.

Thanks

Todd

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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2007, 03:46:51 pm »

Are you asking for legal assistance from UFWDA.† If you are, Please contact Carla Boucher for Guidance

No, I was simply offering an example.

I want to re-open this road through mutual benefit and cooperation with the FS.  It'll take longer, but I want to show people it can be done.
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Steve Jackson
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2007, 09:36:16 pm »

Steve

I think that we have to somehow who the older generation that is running the clubs and organizations that the younger generation can lead if given a chance. 
But when someone says that we have tried that before, and it does not work, the new guys need to pass on that I am different, and possibly have a different leadership style possibly then the other individual that did that event/trail or work weekend. 

I was lucky, in that one of our club leaders was prior military, and we think alike in a lot of ways in what the club should be doing, or the direction we need to go.  So he brought me in, and has allowed me to lead, and gain a leadership position.  The old generation in my club respects him, and they allowed him to let me have the raines on some things.  I am in the middle of the road as far as age goes within my club.  We have guys from the guys that created the club to our newest members who are in their early 20's. 

We also have to get the older generation to think out of the box.  Sometimes they have been burned by another club or members of another club, and will not make amends.  We have that issue within our club and trying to work with another club to help them open trails in the Sierra's. 

It is tough, and guys like me are not afraid to allow some of the younger guys take the lead, and give guidance where needed.  But I learned that from being in the military and that is the way we lead.   
It is tough to get new members to join, because like we have comment, they want to know what is in it for them.  I wish I had a good answer on how to get them to join and keep coming in to our clubs to help out. 
We have isolated ourselves somewhat, and need to find a way to work with the other groups (Dirt Bikers, Quads, hunters, miners) to keep our public lands open. 
I am also a miner, and work some of our public lands, and some of the same fights are going on there. 
I think United could be a good fit for all of the seperate groups to join forces and fight for public land access.
But that is a whole new thread and problem also.

Todd
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kf6zpl
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2007, 10:17:10 pm »

Quote
Now back to the "Me" generation.  This is what I've been trying to get at.  Saying "it's the right thing to do" doesn't work on this generation.  Saying, "get a free ps3 game with every membership" is what works (just an example).

I would like to offer an observation on this statement.  There are a number of 'younger' people becoming involved with public service events.  Pushing "it's the rigth thing to do" does have a value.

What is necessary is to connect the "right thing to do" do a point of interest for the individual.  It is finding out what the motivational factore is that will trigger the desire for them to internalize and step up.

Quote
On to another point brought up (geez, I wish this freebie forum had multi-quote capabilities) about getting younger people involved.  I've noticed that there's an "old-boys culture" at many organizations and clubs that prohibits new, young volunteers from getting involved.  My own experience of getting involved is a sad story of elitism and exclusion.  Only my stubborness kept me into it until I could break into the "old-boys network."  Unfortunately, most younger volunteers won't go through that, and it's a damn shame.  When volunteers show up, and they are greeted with comments like, "That's nothing new, we already tried that idea and it was a disaster, we won't be doing that again," or, "You just don't know how things work,"  It's no wonder we're where we are.  Since becoming President of U4WDA, my number one priority is attracting new working-volunteers to the board of directors.  That starts with having an open culture that nurtures new ideas instead of just squashing them.

One point i have noticed with the younger people, they want to be involved but often are reluctant to step forward.  is it the "old-boys" culture that is holding them back? or, is it lack of mentoring to encourage their participation???

I can relate to Steve's experience of 'elitism and exclusion'.  It is not only in volunteer organizations, it is within the workplace.

I have seen the same "great idea" fail in one instance and thrive in a different instance.  Part of the success of any idea is the committment of the people presenting the idea and the abiity to describe it in terms that can be understood.

One challenge of getting people involved is creating a feeling that it is important for them to be involved.  Okay, it is back to "what's in it for me?"

So, perhaps there are some others with ideas?Huh
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Steve Jackson
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2007, 12:56:41 am »

I would like to offer an observation on this statement.† There are a number of 'younger' people becoming involved with public service events.† Pushing "it's the rigth thing to do" does have a value.

I'd bait 'em with free swag, and hook 'em with "do the right thing."  Because it really is the right thing.  Somedays I want to quict spending spare time working for our cause, and use that time to go wheeling and exploring the west, starting with all of Utah of course.  We need a way to better connect with more people...which I had hoped my suggestions would set off additional suggestions.

What is necessary is to connect the "right thing to do" do a point of interest for the individual.† It is finding out what the motivational factore is that will trigger the desire for them to internalize and step up.

One point i have noticed with the younger people, they want to be involved but often are reluctant to step forward.† is it the "old-boys" culture that is holding them back? or, is it lack of mentoring to encourage their participation???

I'd say it's some of each.  I'd like to institute a mentoring program.  It would be a great method to increase accountability and transfer of knowledge.  Cultivating new working-volunteers is vital.  The 4x4 community needs more of them.


I can relate to Steve's experience of 'elitism and exclusion'.† It is not only in volunteer organizations, it is within the workplace.

Yup, and it's worse in the workplace because your livelihood is involved.  It's out there.

One challenge of getting people involved is creating a feeling that it is important for them to be involved.† Okay, it is back to "what's in it for me?"

Topic Summary
Posted on: March 30, 2007, 11:17:10 pmPosted by: John Stewart 
Insert Quote
Quote
Now back to the "Me" generation.  This is what I've been trying to get at.  Saying "it's the right thing to do" doesn't work on this generation.  Saying, "get a free ps3 game with every membership" is what works (just an example).

I would like to offer an observation on this statement.  There are a number of 'younger' people becoming involved with public service events.  Pushing "it's the rigth thing to do" does have a value.

What is necessary is to connect the "right thing to do" do a point of interest for the individual.  It is finding out what the motivational factore is that will trigger the desire for them to internalize and step up.


Quote
On to another point brought up (geez, I wish this freebie forum had multi-quote capabilities) about getting younger people involved.  I've noticed that there's an "old-boys culture" at many organizations and clubs that prohibits new, young volunteers from getting involved.  My own experience of getting involved is a sad story of elitism and exclusion.  Only my stubborness kept me into it until I could break into the "old-boys network."  Unfortunately, most younger volunteers won't go through that, and it's a damn shame.  When volunteers show up, and they are greeted with comments like, "That's nothing new, we already tried that idea and it was a disaster, we won't be doing that again," or, "You just don't know how things work,"  It's no wonder we're where we are.  Since becoming President of U4WDA, my number one priority is attracting new working-volunteers to the board of directors.  That starts with having an open culture that nurtures new ideas instead of just squashing them.

One point i have noticed with the younger people, they want to be involved but often are reluctant to step forward.  is it the "old-boys" culture that is holding them back? or, is it lack of mentoring to encourage their participation???

I can relate to Steve's experience of 'elitism and exclusion'.  It is not only in volunteer organizations, it is within the workplace.

I have seen the same "great idea" fail in one instance and thrive in a different instance.  Part of the success of any idea is the committment of the people presenting the idea and the abiity to describe it in terms that can be understood.

One challenge of getting people involved is creating a feeling that it is important for them to be involved.  Okay, it is back to "what's in it for me?"

So, perhaps there are some others with ideas?


Yes, I'd like to hear aoubt other ideas.

I still think, small, tactical strikes of legal power in high-profile opportunities to generate buzz and visibility are good for attracting members.  I'll have to PM the strategies I've come up with, but they should be discussed outside of a public forum.
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Steve Jackson
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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2007, 11:21:48 am »

Around here, the public schools have a requirement for "volunteer" public service for HS graduation. While that program has its supporters and detractors, it exists. Quite frequently, the students could use some assistance in getting those hours in. It's a possible source of volunteers and a chance to get new involvement that's worth looking into.
College admissions frequently like to see service or involvement on the applications. Another opportunity to "grab 'em while they are young".
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« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2007, 05:16:14 am »

as promised:

I conducted a survey, of sorts, to ascertain the general feel of the four wheel drive community on the proposed changes to Unitedís By Laws and operating structure.† I had hoped to gain a prospective on the best way to support the United Four Wheel Drive Assoication.
Out of thirty two clubs/organizations/associations contacted only 15 responded.
5 support the United Four Wheel drive Assoication with 100% membership,
3 support United with $1000 flat membership rate
6 support United with $100 flat membership recognition.
1 responder stated that they were not renewing their membership with United.
Of the 5 groups that support United with 100% membership only 2 submitted membership at the current organization rate of $15 per member.† The other 3 stated they paid $10 per member.
One of the 3 groups that support United with a flat fee of $1000 reported that its members could join United for $10 per member.
† † †Basically- mass confusion.† No one seems to be on the same page.† United has some serious management issues. The financial difficulties United is facing along with membership issues and communication issues are very troubling.
† From my survey, I see a community of four wheelers looking for guidance and leadership, a community ready to provide financial support.† I believe that in order for United to be our answer; United has to evolve to better meet our needs.† I hope to see change in the near future; the four wheel drive community needs it.

Trish Dinsmore
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