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UFWDA Community Forum  |  Access (Land Use, RTF, Advocacy, etc)  |  General Land Advocacy  |  Topic: Man-Made Rock Course Engineering « previous next »
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Author Topic: Man-Made Rock Course Engineering  (Read 1266 times)
Pat Brower
Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association
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« on: April 08, 2007, 10:18:16 pm »

Does anyone know of any companies who engineer/ construct manufactured rock courses?

These can be either natural rock or the sprayed concrete type.

Michigan's DNR is seeking reputable firms for consultation in the development of Michigan's first public course and I would like to make SURE they are able to select from the best.

 Grin
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 07:58:38 am »

Pat I would contact either Big or 'lil Rick Klein.  They are the promotors behind WE Rocks and have been involved with several very well done man made courses.    Lil has been

Big Rich KleinTel (530) 417-5333
email: bigrich@we-rock.cc

lil' Rich Klein Tel (530) 409-4548
lilrich@we-rock.cc

http://we-rock.cc

Don't know if they can help, but I'm sure they will do what they can.

- Shawn

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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 09:52:08 am »

When the group did the CalAccess event here in California, and they had a rock crawl course, Lil rich from WeRock designed the course.
Here is a link to the CalAccess site.
http://www.calaccess.net/Cal_Access_Expo_Pages/Cal%20Rocs.htm

I thought it was a small course, but the drivers seemed to have fun.
I know they are working on adding to the course this summer, so it will get larger as time goes on.

Todd
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Jim Mazzola
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 07:07:00 pm »

Pat, I'm going to elaborate a bit here if I can.
The DNR in Michigan has designated a fair bit of money, (over $40,000 for two courses) to design a rock course. This doesn't include the installation or materials. The terrain in Michigan is primaraily sandy loamy soil with a sometime high water table, less than three feet. The DNR is very concerned about anyone puncturing an oil pan and leaking oil on to the gound. It is that reason tha the DNR is looking for someone who has designed a rock course and has addressed oil spill mitigation. For example, Do you put down a 40 mil rubber liner and design what amounts to a silt trap for oil? As reference I asked this question almost two years ago and came up empty handed. It seems as though there are people who can design a rock course but no one who understands the environmental aspect of the design.
GLFWDA however has made headway with an environmental responsible design but the DNR does not view us as credible, environmentally certified course designers. At the suggestion of Sandee McCullum  I contacted a company called Midwest Environmental Products. They manufacture a procuct called Peat-Sorb. It's an environmentally safe product that was designed for hydraulic oil spills at golf courses. It's basically an environmentally friendly hydrocarbon absorbant that is non-toxic, non-leaching, and it's a naturally formed material....Canadian sphagum peat moss. In fact almost 12% of Canada is covered with peat moss.
The other ironic thing is, Michigan State University, no less than a few miles from our state capital in Lansing, performed extensive studies on oil spill cleanup. But yet we can't get the DNR to talk to the researchers @ MSU. The DNR has also been at presentations where the Peat-Sorb company did a demonstration for them.  Peat-Sorb is also certified by numerous testing agencies in Canada and they have certifications for the material being safe for disposal in landfills due to it's non-leaching characteristic.
You can actually have a spill, toss a bunch of this material right on the spill and leave it without having to clean it up. The peat moss absorbs and holds the hydrocarbons and suspends it while the natual occuring microorganisms and the humic acid in the peat break down the oil product. All hydrocarbons are organic carbon compounds containing only carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. Almost all petroleum hydrocarbons will degrade to carbon dioxide and water within a very short anount of time. The time depneds on many things like oxygen level, moisture, tempature, acidicy, etc.
So we sit, waiting for 'Rock Couse Design and Development, Inc' to contact the DNR so we can proceed with the design and installation of our first and hopefully not last rock course.
So, anyone know of such a company?HuhHuh If not, I see a great opportunity!
jim-kb8ymf
 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 07:17:56 pm by Jim Mazzola » Logged
Pat Brower
Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 11:30:57 am »

I just hung up the phone with Big Rich.
He says he'd be more than willing to discuss a course with the Department.

He seemed confident that they would be able to come up with 'something' to address oil spill mitigation that would be agreeable with the DNR.
I will get Rich's info to our DNR in the next couple of days.

Keep your fingers crossed, and I'll fill you in when I hear more!


 Cheesy

Thanks Shawn!
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 11:32:47 am »

No problem Pat, hope it works out. 

- Shawn
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Pat Brower
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 10:12:51 pm »

Well, the Department was thankful for the information about WE Rock, but would like more companies to choose from.

Any idea who else makes rock courses in the U.S.?
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Jim Kitson
Great Lakes 4 Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2007, 10:40:33 am »

My belief is this is one more of their many stalling techniques that they have done.  You need to explain to them that there are not alot of people doing this because it is a realtively new technique.  Offer to let us help to critique the vendor to since we are going to be the user base.
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Todd Ockert
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 12:59:40 pm »

Any idea who else makes rock courses in the U.S.?

I would ask the other rock crawl organizations to see if they use a man-made course, or natural course.
If they build a course, see if they can provide info.

Todd
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Keith Holman
Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2007, 02:02:03 pm »

Quote
My belief is this is one more of their many stalling techniques that they have done.  You need to explain to them that there are not alot of people doing this because it is a realtively new technique.  Offer to let us help to critique the vendor to since we are going to be the user base.

It may very well be a delaying tactic BUT government abhors a single source of supply like nature abhors a vacuum. The level of pre-approvals and after the fact justifications for not having an open competition is dizzying. Speaking in a generalization which may or may not apply in this specific case, identifying multiple potential sources -- even if they aren't good ones -- makes it a lot easier to justify the one you chose. It is generally better to say "I looked at two (or three or more) different prices/proposals and it was obvious that only one could actually accomplish the work" than to say "I looked at only one source."

Bottom line, if you can identify ANYone else who is willing to say they MIGHT want the work, you make the work easier. Politicis plays a big role here.
Speaking as a professional government bureaucrat, by the way.
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 02:43:58 pm »

You might try someone at UROC.  http://www.uroc.com/ I have no idea what kind of response you might get.



- Shawn
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UFWDA Community Forum  |  Access (Land Use, RTF, Advocacy, etc)  |  General Land Advocacy  |  Topic: Man-Made Rock Course Engineering « previous next »
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