UFWDA Community Forum

UFWDA General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: Trish Dinsmore on March 25, 2007, 07:05:38 pm

Title: Supporting United
Post by: Trish Dinsmore on March 25, 2007, 07:05:38 pm
To the four wheeling community:

I find it very interesting that there are associations who show very little support to United. The Virginia Four wheel Drive Association-VA4WDA will send $8992.00 to United in dues for 2007.  They support United with 100% membership.  How do you value what United does for the sport of four wheeling? Is what you send to United in dues, 1%, 10% of your membership?  Is that how you value United?  What United does for our sport is more than the publication of a newsletter.  Our very right to enjoy four wheeling is a continuous battle that United is fighting for us. 
Everyone should be supporting United with 100% membership. If you are a member of an association that does not support United with 100% membership you should be embarrassed.

Trish Dinsmore


Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Jim Mazzola on March 25, 2007, 10:56:01 pm
Trish,
So you have 599.46 members!   ::)
Seriously though, I just got off a conference call with our Board of Directors and I had a long time member of the Association question the value of UFWDA. And if we should still renew as members. And this is a person who does battle with the DNR and our Natural Resource Commission in our state defending the rights of 4 wheelers ??? ???
Sometimes I just don't know to shoot myself or the person who said it!
Thanks again for your support. I know with Carla being right at your side, you experience first hand the value of her leadership.
jim-kb8ymf
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Scott Hatch on March 26, 2007, 11:28:26 am
I support United and the NEA4WDC supports United.

The NEA4WDC doesn't force its member clubs to belong to any organization unless that member club chooses to. We encourage them to join but its felt that the decision should be left to the individual club. Our member clubs support the mission of United and some support United financially.

It is important to understand that the North East region of the US is much different than other areas in our nation. We don't have any BLM land nor do we have any federal lands open to 4x4 use. Our energies and resources here are spent dealing with 6 different state legislative bodies that cover the approximate size of one western state. It is also imporant to understand that the average membership cost of joining any club in the North East is about $40. As such it is difficult to sell United to clubs that would use over 1/2 of a member's dues towards dues to the NEA and United.

To be honest it is a difficult sell considering the above and the fiscal status of the Voice. Many of our member clubs feel that United is not being fiscally responsible when the Voice continues to loose money every year which I hope we can resolve ASAP.

We are working towards increasing United's influence in the North East

We showing our members the value of United by having John Stewart teach the United Land Use Seminar.

We have submitted a proposal to host United in 2008

We are sending delegates to the United conventions

We are meeting with the member clubs and discussing the importance of having a voice on the federal level.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: UFWDA Forum Admin on March 26, 2007, 11:57:34 am
Personally I think supporting UFWDA means having some faith, just a little in the Board of Directors and the Extended Board to do the job they were elected by you to do.  Instead of attacking everything they have done or tried to do and saying that it's good but.. there are not very many people out there who care more about UFWDA then its BOD members (whether you think they have been perfect or not).  Breaking everything down or believing for one minute that the board is trying to play power games is ridiculous.

Give them some rope, let them make the changes they think will ultimatly help the organization, then monitor it. They are the ones who have spent 365 days a year (or close to it) working on UFWDA, not 1 or 2 weeks a year 2nd guessing it.  Give them a chance and I would bet everyone would be very happy with what will happen at the national and international level over the next 5 years.

Or do the same thing that has been done for at least the past three / four years and 2nd guess everything until whatever comes out is a worthless compromise.

My suggestion is to accept the changes as they are.  That to me (my personnal opinion not representing my Organization, Association or Club) is the way to support UFWDA.

My $0.02

- Shawn
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 26, 2007, 12:41:21 pm
It is important to note that while BLM and Forest Service have limited opportunities (especially in the northeast), there are many state a private land opportunities.  The core issue is accress for recreation opportunity.

Scott, your concerns about the fiscal status of the UFWDA Voice have been discussed at length by the Board.  We have reviewed al of the options (including elimination of the expense).  The end result was we need to communicate with members and provide a means by which we can attrack business revenue.

That means is advertising; which i swhy we also restructured the business membership to place more emphasis on advertising opportunity.  Our goal is to make the UFWDA Voice self-sustaining on advertising income. 

We are working to establish metrics where we can track progress to that goal.  Early results indicate that business member income (including advertising) for the 1st quarter of 2007 is slightly ahead of the same quarter in 2006.

I just returned from Spring SEMA in Atlanta with one new business member and several high probable prospects.  All are expected to have additional advertising.

I have been analyzing the individual membership numbers.  For the 1st quarter of 2007, our new individual member numbers are higher than any quarter since 3rd qtr 2004.  And, our membership renewals have been consistant for the past three quarters.

While it is too early to tell, these are some positive indicators.  Our goal is to ensure these indicators remain on a positive trend.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Scott Hatch on March 26, 2007, 08:36:12 pm
I'm not attacking anyone or questioning any member of the BOD or officer has anything but the best intentions in mind for United. I am only relaying information and concerns as I have received from my members and I'm not trying to bring back the horrible proceedings from the last convention.

I have faith in the elected officers and members of the BOD that the United will turn things around.

If you have the tools and/or information to bring more member clubs into the fold, PLEASE relay the info to me

I am only responding to what I perceive as an attack by Trish, which was also sent to me in a PM, with the reasons why MY association doesn't have 100% participation in United.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 26, 2007, 08:56:12 pm
Thanks for your vote of confidence.

Several of us are looking for the "tools and/or information" to bring more members into the fold.

I have listened tothe arguements from both sides.  And, there are valid issues.

Crafting a solution is the hard part.

In the end, it comes done to people will inves in what the believe support their goals. 

I would like to see an increase in membership (partiicpation) by the up and coming generation.

I am always looking for my successor...
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: UFWDA Forum Admin on March 26, 2007, 10:43:31 pm
I'm not attacking anyone or questioning any member of the BOD or officer has anything but the best intentions in mind for United. 

It was a general statement in relation to the title of this post "Supporting United".  It is directed at each and every Organization within UFWDA.

I have faith in the elected officers and members of the BOD that the United will turn things around..

Great then direct your Delegates to do the right thing, my opinion (which you don't have to like or even agree with) is to show that faith by believing that the officers and paid staff are doing the right thing and have been looking at this over the years and not just for a few weeks or moments in time like the delegates generally do.

I am only responding to what I perceive as an attack by Trish, which was also sent to me in a PM, with the reasons why MY association doesn't have 100% participation in United.

Don't know what happened in private but put yourself in the 100% associations place.. they feel like they are supporting the non-100% associaitons.  And we all know that the topic of conversation for at least the last 4 years is the inequity of the dues structure.  It is broken and unfair.  The BOD has tried to fix it and been shot down every time.  Now it's more convulauted then ever.  So let them fix it and see what happens in 4 or 5 years.

Again just my $0.02
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Scott Hatch on March 27, 2007, 07:03:43 am
Don't know what happened in private but put yourself in the 100% associations place.. they feel like they are supporting the non-100% associaitons.  And we all know that the topic of conversation for at least the last 4 years is the inequity of the dues structure.  It is broken and unfair.  The BOD has tried to fix it and been shot down every time.  Now it's more convulauted then ever.  So let them fix it and see what happens in 4 or 5 years.

Conversly try to put yourself in our position, attacking someone is not the way to discuss an issue. The only thing it does is further divide us.

As I stated I would like to see 100% participation in United from our member clubs but my Assocation is not going to dictate to our clubs that they MUST join United.

Give me some additional TOOLS and INFORMATION to sell United and I would be happy to do so

Please do not judge ME from the actions of another, I understand your frustration because I deal with the same thing. I am not judging United from a snap shot of a few weeks time, I believe in United and want to see United grow and prosper.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Carla Boucher on March 27, 2007, 09:14:36 am
I just got off a conference call with our Board of Directors and I had a long time member of the Association question the value of UFWDA. And if we should still renew as members.

Jim, I think the people on this thread could really benefit from hearing how you responded to your member who asked what the value of UFWDA is.  Every association is asked that question by their members and if they can see how you fielded the question they could similarly answer the question.

Thanks
Carla
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: UFWDA Forum Admin on March 27, 2007, 09:42:02 am
Conversly try to put yourself in our position, attacking someone is not the way to discuss an issue. The only thing it does is further divide us.

You are correct; but letting it fester amoung those who feel cheated also doesn't solve anything so perhaps it at least started a healthy discussion.  While I agree 100% that no one should attack anyone about this I also don't think there is anything wrong with some confrontation as long as it doesn't get ugly.  But that is one of those challenges the bod has right?  Everyone is going to defend their own turf no matter who thinks what is right and the job of the board is to understand what works for UFWDA by taking bits and pieces and melding them together.

Putting myself in your position - I can't, I don't live there and I don't know what your priorities are.  What I do know that without money and control of their own destiny organizations like UFWDA can not exisit.  The work they do at the national level is the work that impacts the future of the sport.  The people that run the organization on a daily basis need the freedom to run the business of UFWDA and not have their hands tied to a yearly meeting where they are told how bad a job they are doing instead of hearing feedback on what need to be done around the country.

We have some of the same issues hear in CO when it comes to money - especially for landuse... while we have open trails and public lands we also have to decide where our money goes - the local club (For me: WagonMaster and Trailridge Runner), the state Association (CO State Associaiton of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs), The State Coalition (CO Off Highway Vehicle Coalition), The state sticker program (Not required for 4x4's but if the % of 4x4's drop then MC and ATV get all the funding), and the national orgs (like UFWDA). 

By the time one spends a little at each place it adds up.  So I do understand that it's not $25.. it's more like $60 or $70. 

As I stated I would like to see 100% participation in United from our member clubs but my Assocation is not going to dictate to our clubs that they MUST join United.

So I believe the new plan removes the inequity and allows your clubs/association to do just that.  So vote in the changes as they sit and see what happens.  The 100% and the non-100% will make their own choices but it will be on a level playing field.

Give me some additional TOOLS and INFORMATION to sell United and I would be happy to do so

Hmm.. the future of the sport should be all that is needed.. but unfortunatly I know it's not.  Land use (your already doing).. but that's a big part.  Awareness training can be used to bring in new people etc. 

I find that just putting UFWDA on the state agenda and the clubs agenda even if for only 1 or 2 minutes at every meeting and talking about things that are happening from someone who takes a few hours a week to read and understand what is happening makes a huge difference.  Just make sure that person you have do this (a delegate or other person) has the ability to break the work down into terms the people understand.  If they talk over everyone head no one will want to listen anymore.  The UFWDA's Voice has material so ask then if anyone needs to understand anything or ask the BOD for a quick update the week before your meeting (or check for PR on the website).

There's a few ideas - some you may already be doing.

Please do not judge ME from the actions of another, I understand your frustration because I deal with the same thing. I am not judging United from a snap shot of a few weeks time, I believe in United and want to see United grow and prosper.

I am not judging anyone from the actions of another.  In fact I'm not judging anyone.  What I said is that the 100%'ers don't think it's fair.  And they don't. That isn't a judgement, it's a fact and a feeling.  If you spent any time at convention the last 4 years then you would understand the truth in that statement whether it's got various levels and whether or note anyone has offered a fix.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 27, 2007, 11:38:36 am
Quote
I find that just putting UFWDA on the state agenda and the clubs agenda even if for only 1 or 2 minutes at every meeting and talking about things that are happening from someone who takes a few hours a week to read and understand what is happening makes a huge difference.  Just make sure that person you have do this (a delegate or other person) has the ability to break the work down into terms the people understand.  If they talk over everyone head no one will want to listen anymore.  The UFWDA's Voice has material so ask then if anyone needs to understand anything or ask the BOD for a quick update the week before your meeting (or check for PR on the website).

This is an important point.  One source of information not mentioned is the E-News.  Peter does pull someting together on a monthly basis to keep information current.

As UFWDA is "national", providing a sentence or two about "national" issues helps frame the goals of UFWDA. 


Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Scott Hatch on March 27, 2007, 12:27:10 pm
This is an important point.  One source of information not mentioned is the E-News.  Peter does pull someting together on a monthly basis to keep information current.

As UFWDA is "national", providing a sentence or two about "national" issues helps frame the goals of UFWDA. 




that is a good point, thank you
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 27, 2007, 04:09:08 pm
Wow, VA4WDA has a lot more money that Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association (U4WDA).  I commend you guys for being so supportive of UFWDA.  We try to keep our organization membership up to date ($1000/annually), but that cost is about 6% of our entire annual budget.  Is it worth the money?  Would it be worth the money to sign up all 1000 of our members?  I don't think there's a way to put a dollar value on it.  Just the IDEA of a national organization representing the 4x4 community is worth the investment.  Add to that all the great work that UFWDA does, and the value becomes obvious.  While worthy, we certainly can't afford to spend $15,000 to have 100% membership in UFWDA at this time, and I don't feel embarrassed about it but thanks for suggesting that I should be.

Too many individuals, clubs, associations, and businesses are asking, "What do I get for my money?"  They're asking for tangible benefits so they can equate their money with some perceivable benefit.  More people need to be thinking of the cause, and contributing based on what we COULD be doing if EVERY 4x4 user, 4x4 club, 4x4 association, and 4x4 related business got financially involved in the fight we're facing.  Lead by example and contribute what you can.

There's always room for improving any organization, and we should continue to make UFWDA as strong as it can be.  In the meantime, we know that nothing gets done without money.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: UFWDA Forum Admin on March 27, 2007, 04:51:48 pm
Wow, VA4WDA has a lot more money that Utah 4 Wheel Drive Association (U4WDA).  I commend you guys for being so supportive of UFWDA.  We try to keep our organization membership up to date ($1000/annually), but that cost is about 6% of our entire annual budget.  Is it worth the money?  Would it be worth the money to sign up all 1000 of our members?  I don't think there's a way to put a dollar value on it.  Just the IDEA of a national organization representing the 4x4 community is worth the investment.  Add to that all the great work that UFWDA does, and the value becomes obvious.  While worthy, we certainly can't afford to spend $15,000 to have 100% membership in UFWDA at this time, and I don't feel embarrassed about it but thanks for suggesting that I should be.

Too many individuals, clubs, associations, and businesses are asking, "What do I get for my money?"  They're asking for tangible benefits so they can equate their money with some perceivable benefit.  More people need to be thinking of the cause, and contributing based on what we COULD be doing if EVERY 4x4 user, 4x4 club, 4x4 association, and 4x4 related business got financially involved in the fight we're facing.  Lead by example and contribute what you can.

There's always room for improving any organization, and we should continue to make UFWDA as strong as it can be.  In the meantime, we know that nothing gets done without money.

I think what you have shown here is a big part of the rub.. different areas of the country have their own priorities.. but also you (Utah and others as well) looks at the money that goes to UFWDA as part of your budget while other Associations (Virginia for example and others as well) look at it from the historical intent that the Association collected money from the Individual and it was passed thru - never intending that money to be part of the Association Budget but giving the individual a discount for joining thru the Association.  Over time that commitment / understanding has gone away and is creating the perception of the inequaity by Association / Organization in UFWDA.

FYI - I'm not saying whether either view is right or wrong.. one is historical that is all.

And I believe that is exactly what the board is trying to address with the new dues structure and business plan.  Equality between the associations/organizations, something monetary back to the Associations and/or Organizations for promoting UFWDA and a equal and reasonable fee to those individuals who choose to join.

Would I like all the Associations / Organizations to join at 100% - yes.  Is it neccesary - no.  In time if UFWDA grows and is able to do the things the members want them to do insted of just trying to survive then more and more will join to support the cause.

- Shawn
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Todd Ockert on March 27, 2007, 05:26:05 pm
For those that know or have met Del Albright, I am going to use some of his info.

J - Join all that you can afford to join.  State Association, United, Blue Ribbon.
A - Advocate our sport to others.  This includes friends, BLM officials and anyone that will listen.
I - Include friends, BLM officials on club runs or organized events. 
L - Letters to elected officials.  And as Del says, for every trail ride you do, we should write one letter.  This is his one for one campaign.

We need to do this more often.  If we see a rig on the trail with no club colors, or sticker for their state association, we need to ask them what club they belong to?  Then ask them to join their state association, United, or Blue Ribbon, because we need them to be a voice for us also. 

I also have business cards I made on my computer that I put on windshields of other jeeps in town to get them to think about joining my club.  I have gotten 3 ew members for my club by doing this. 

Look here for more info.
http://www.delalbright.com/Access/howto.htm

Todd
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 27, 2007, 09:26:40 pm
Yes, we do all these things and quite a bit more.  Money is an issue.  It's $10 to join our state association.  We can't increase the price by 150% to be $25 just to get membership in UFWDA.  We can barely get the masses to pay $10.  Most people don't understand the fight we face.  And certainly almost everyone doesn't understand the tangible benefit of UFWDA.  We are not doing a good enough job explaining this to our audience.  UFWDA is not doing a good enough job explaining this to the 4x4 community in general.  The idealistic wish to have a strong national organization that can provide communications and support for the entire community (equally in every part of the country) while effectively lobbying for our cause is worth the $30 charge to me.  But that's the overwhelming minority.  List 10 ways UFWDA has had a direct effect on the average 4x4 user in Utah (or any state).
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Chris Boucher on March 27, 2007, 09:56:56 pm
Sell United to clubs and 4x4 owners in your area this way..

Compare United to the NRA.  Why do people join the National Rifle Association?  Do they trust that the NRA will do what's right for them as gun owners? I think so.

It costs $35 to join the NRA...
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

Look at these benefits you get...
http://www.nra.org/benefits.aspx

Look at this description under the "About Us" section...

While widely recognized today as a major political force and as America's foremost defender of Second Amendment rights, the NRA has, since its inception, been the premier firearms education organization in the world. But our successes would not be possible without the tireless efforts and countless hours of service our nearly three million members have given to champion Second Amendment rights and support NRA programs. As former Clinton spokesman George Stephanopoulos said, "Let me make one small vote for the NRA. They're good citizens. They call their Congressmen. They write. They vote. They contribute. And they get what they want over time."

The rest of the "About Us" section can be found here...
http://www.nra.org/Aboutus.aspx

Now go back and substitute United for NRA, and access for firearm/2nd Amendment Rights, and reread this stuff.  Now substitute $25 per year for the $35 per year and look at the bargain we're getting.
 
What other organization is working for access for your 4x4?
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 27, 2007, 10:18:32 pm
To answer your last question.  Several.  Utah Shared Access Alliance is a respectable force in Utah fighting closures with lawyers and lobbying in the state.  It's hard to explain why we would send a huge check to UFWDA over USA-ALL.  But I'm not the one who needs to be convinced.  I see the value of UFWDA's mission and purpose.  It's the same mission and purpose that the state associations have on a state level and the some extent the same as what the clubs have on a community level.

I'm not at all trying to downplay or question the value of UFWDA, but rather play devil's advocate to provide a voice to the millions of 4x4 users across the country who've never heard of UFWDA or have never given UFWDA membership a second thought.  I'm involved deep enough to know the battle we're fighting, and the stakes if we lose.  I'm on board every national initiative that attempts to serve the interests of the 4x4 community while working to protect access.

No doubt UFWDA memberhship is a value for the reasons we've mentioned.  What people don't understand is how it relates to their personal lives and their favorite trail.  The tangible, listable, praiseable actions that have positively affected their lives (whether they know it or not).  That's the list I'm looking for.  That's the list to bring back to potential members.

Tell people that UFWDA is a national voice and protector of 4x4 rights, and you're talking about an intangible concept that seems distant and unrelated.

Tell people that UFWDA was instrumental in saving Trail X, passing Law Y, providing education program Z on a large scale, etc, and we've connected with a dissafected member of a persecuted community who is willing to join the cause.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Chris Boucher on March 27, 2007, 10:25:12 pm
Here's a list you can use with your membership...

http://www.ufwda.org/landuse.htm

...or check out the latest issue of the Voice, there is a list in there.

Do you think this will sway some folks?
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 27, 2007, 11:54:59 pm
It helps, but I'm hoping for a "slam-dunk" action to point to.  While working in general terms on so many projects is necessary and part of the work, our potential members are looking for on-the-ground, tangible results.  Organizations work on issues in the areas where there are the most active volunteers.  That's not on the ground here where I live.  This list appeals to the logical part of the brain.  It's logical that these things are necessary, but that won't motivate the average 4x4 user to get involved.  We already know that appealing for donations "because it's the right thing" gets us practically no where.  However, we've seen that when paying for an event, buying a chance at free stuff (raffles), or soliciting donations to protect a particular trail with which the potential donor has a personal connection, we can have success in raising money (which at the end of the day is 98% of what we're talking about).

We need to "bribe" potential members with benefits they can taste and feel.  The primedia magazine deal is a good example, but nothing invokes emotive responses like direct action or defense on your favorite trail or area.  Even if we need to manufacture crises, we need high profile action.

As a long time fundraising consultant for non-profits, I never thought it would be this hard to raise money in a community that has such great demographics.  Most serious 4x4 users are financially stable with moderate to large discretionary income.  But we can't get them to part with it.  Telling them about the good work in Washington DC or good meetings with Regional FS reps is like selling Internet access to homeless people.  It's pointless.  We need to find another way to reach our target market with an appeal that they can't say no to.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 28, 2007, 06:42:54 am
Quote
As a long time fundraising consultant for non-profits, I never thought it would be this hard to raise money in a community that has such great demographics.  Most serious 4x4 users are financially stable with moderate to large discretionary income.  But we can't get them to part with it.  Telling them about the good work in Washington DC or good meetings with Regional FS reps is like selling Internet access to homeless people.  It's pointless.  We need to find another way to reach our target market with an appeal that they can't say no to.

There is a point for consideration about "demographics".  I have been spending a considerable time on those issues for the past few years.  The USFS Southern Research Station has some interesting studies about various recreation trends http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/trends/

I have a lot of information gleaned from there and US Census studies about the shift in demographic.

Basically, the assumption that "most serious 4x4 users are financially stable with moderate to large discretionary income" is partially correct.  And, appealing to altruistic values is a hard sell. 

Now, the real issue is defining the "target market" for the "product" you are trying to sell.

For example, the UFWDA programs are spelled out quite clear.  The condensed version is:

UFWDA provides the following services to members:

4WD Awareness Program - This program is designed to instill responsible off-highway driving skills through education and instruction to novice 4-wheel drive vehicles owners, teaching owners about the components of their 4x4 vehicle, proper off-highway driving techniques, proper vehicle recovery, courtesies related to four wheeling, and environmental awareness.

Volunteer Trail Patrol - This program is to establish a formal network for concerned recreation and conservationists to communicate with other recreationists and law enforcement officers regarding crime-related, user ethics, and environmental problems.

Organizational Incentive Program - The purpose of this program is to generate support funds for partner organizations. Participating members “check the box” to send a portion of their UFWDA membership revenue to one organizational partner of their choice.

Communication and Education - UFWDA provides global communication with other four wheel drive enthusiasts, with local, state, and federal land managers, and with local, state, and federal legislators.

Legislative and Legal Advocacy - UFWDA members have access to the corporation’s full-time legislative advocate and nationally-recognized attorney working exclusively for four wheel drive enthusiasts to protect access and prevent road and trail closures.  UFWDA continually monitors, tracks, and combats federal legislation that would affect four wheel drive motor vehicle users. In addition, UFWDA partners with other champions of OHV access to protect access rights in the states.

Now, how do you "sell" these to members? 

Starting with the 4WD Awareness class, it is structured so that an organization can sponsor it as a "fund-raiser" or at least a benefit.  Keep in mind, everything has a price -- there are no "free" rides.  As the Awareness has a cost, by approaching a local business for sponsorship, the organization can underwrite the all or a portion of the cost.

Further, people tend to value what they pay for.  Providing "free" classes is an altruistic, feel-good effort.  But, the general public is pressed on a daily basis to take advantage of a "free" offer only to find that they will pay in the end.

As such, a class where the major costs are underwritten by a sponsor AND attendees pay a resonable amount can change the dynamics of the cost factor.

That same effort applies to the VTP or the other education programs available to members of UFWDA.

The core point is borne out by a catch phrase used by the environmental movement: "Think global, act local"

In other words, the efforts at the "national" level have a direct impact on what you do at the "local" level.  And, what is done at the "local" level has an impact at the "national" level.

For example, when an area in Utah is proposed for wilderness, the SUWA spends a majority of its resources advertising the need for that wilderness protection not in Utah, but in the "vote rich" environemnt of the northeast and mid-Atlantic states.

That is a classic example of "Think global and act local".

Within the 4x4 community, UFWDA does provide a voice for 4x4 concerns at a level that is not reached by the local club or association.  Because we can provide "numbers of perspective voters" (or buyers) we do command more attention than a small organization.  That equates to a focused demographic across a broad geographic spectrum. 

UFWDA was an exhibitor at the Spring SEMA show.  The Southern Four Wheel Drive Assoc provided a display vehicle and some folks to help staff the booth.  That provided the local association an opportunity to advertise THEIR association (and their alliance with UFWDA) to a demographic that sells product to their members.  In other words, SEMA is a trade show not open to the general public.  Everyone attending the trade show represents a specific demographic that is looking at the products offers by the manufacturers and evaluating how they can "sell" that product to their customers.

That demographic now is aware of UFWDA and Southern as organizations that provide a linkage to their customers.

Due to Southern's support, I was able to attend a couple of meetings with SEMA and the Light Truck Accessories Alliance.  That effort resulted in SEMA (their Marketing section) picking up the ball to develop economic indicators that will reflect a economic impact of OHV recreation.  That is a valuable bit of data that is not available.  And yet, every land mangement decision is required to use economic impact data in the evaluation of alternatives.  We will now have valid data to submit.

There are ways things can be done.  The success at SEMA was due in part to the support of the local association.  And, the locla association felt very positive about the benefits and exposure they received.  Their efforts to get the same type of exposure at SEMA was going to cost them over $1500.  They got it for nothing.  UFWDA has been a guest of SEMA for a number of years. 

Again, think global, act local.....

Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Todd Ockert on March 28, 2007, 12:15:53 pm
I think John has it right with his last comments. 
I am going to throw this out from my marketing class.

SWOT analysis.
Strenght
Weakness
Opportunities
Threats

Strengths:
  o What advantages do you have?
  o What advantages do you have compared to your competition?
  o What do you do well?
  o What relevant resources do you have access to?
  o What do other people see as your strengths?

Weaknesses:
  o What could you improve?
  o What do you do badly?
  o What should you avoid?
  o Are there some things you cannot improve, and must therefore hide, or avoid
  o Are there some things you can improve, but it would cost resources (time, money)

Opportunities:
  o What are the interesting trends you are aware of?
 
Useful opportunities can come from such things as:
            o Changes in technology and markets on both a broad and narrow scale
            o Changes in government policy related to your field
            o Changes in social patterns, population profiles, lifestyle changes, etc.
            o Events & activities, local, regional, national - piggyback on someone else's energy

Threats:
  o Threats from the changing Technological Environment
  o Threats from changes to rules and regulations established by the Political Environment
  o Threats from changes in the Economic Environment (inflation, currency exchange rate fluctuations, etc.)
  o Threats from extreme weather (Geographic Environment) - ice storm, tidal wave, hurricane, earthquake
  o Threats from the Competitive Environment
  o Threats from changes in the Social-Cultural Environment - demographic changes, aging population, gender issues, other languages, etc.

Maybe if we can answer these questions, we can all help provide some direction for United. 
I would hope that they answered some of these questions prior to looking at the reorganization they would like to undertake.  I support what they are planning, and think it will be good for the organization.
Most of the above is used for creating marketing strategies. 

How many people have OHV's that are not a member of a club, state association, or state association? 
I would bet 2/3's of the users out there are in the  above category! 
How do we get them to join one of the three?  Club, state or national organization. 

In my college marketing class, I may take this on as a project to see what I come up with.  I will then post my responses or possible solutions here.  Are they going to be right? 

I hope the above helps some people understand some of the issues we face as a sport!

Todd
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 28, 2007, 12:43:32 pm
Quote
Maybe if we can answer these questions, we can all help provide some direction for United.
I would hope that they answered some of these questions prior to looking at the reorganization they would like to undertake.  I support what they are planning, and think it will be good for the organization.
Most of the above is used for creating marketing strategies.

Yes, we went through a similar exercise. 

Quote
How many people have OHV's that are not a member of a club, state association, or state association?
I would bet 2/3's of the users out there are in the  above category!
How do we get them to join one of the three?  Club, state or national organization.

One of the conflicts with this question centers around the term "OHV".  There are a lot of people that own a 4x4 that do not consider themselves as part of the "OHV" community.  To them, OHVs are ATVs and dirtbikes that disrupt their sightseeing, hunting, fishing, photography, etc.

I am more inlcined to believe that 2/3s is an under-estimate.....

Quote
In my college marketing class, I may take this on as a project to see what I come up with.  I will then post my responses or possible solutions here.  Are they going to be right?

Go for it!  BTW, my degree is in business and lengthy background in risk analysis and quality/process management. 
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 29, 2007, 12:03:47 am
Well, I typed a long lengthy post earlier, and then this forum crashed.

My general thought is that what I'm talking about is a simple sell.  The two or three sentence appeal that reaches someone.  It has to connect with them on a personal level.

"UFWDA is a great organization that represents the 4x4 community on a national level."

Will result in, "thanks, sounds great, I'm glad someone is doing it."

"UFWDA is currently suing SUWA into bankruptcy!"

Will result in, "it's about damn time, how can I contribute?"
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Chris Boucher on March 29, 2007, 06:51:05 am
How about...
 
"United is working constantly to keep trails open in Utah. 
Everything United does directly and indirectly affects access in Utah. 
The leading anti-access group has a budget 50 times larger than United.
The people who want to close your trails send in $50 for every dollar you donate.
United needs your support."
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Carla Boucher on March 29, 2007, 12:04:18 pm
My general thought is that what I'm talking about is a simple sell. The two or three sentence appeal that reaches someone. It has to connect with them on a personal level.
"UFWDA is a great organization that represents the 4x4 community on a national level."
Will result in, "thanks, sounds great, I'm glad someone is doing it."

"UFWDA is currently suing SUWA into bankruptcy!"
Will result in, "it's about damn time, how can I contribute?"

Thanks Steve for the idea.  Here it is:

UFWDA is fighting the following environmental organizations because they want to strip your right to wheel.  We’re fighting in Federal Court, in settlement agreements, and in rulemakings and agency activities so we have standing to sue in court later:

Friends of the Earth, Bluewater Network division (representing 69 other environmental organizations)
National Parks Conservation Association
Wildlands Center for the Preventon of Roads
Center for Biological Diversity
Sierra Club
Minnesota Center for Environmental Advocacy
Isaak Walton League
American Hiking Society
Natural Trails and Water Coalition

UFWDA needs your help NOW! 

Give to UFWDA by mailing a check today to
UFWDA, 14525 SW Millikan Way #22622, Beaverton, OR 97005-2343
Or by credit card by calling UFWDA toll-free within the United States 1-800-448-3932 (44-UFWDA).


I've also posted it here:
http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php?topic=547.msg2449
and I've submitted it for publication in UFWDA April e-News. 

I would have liked to said
"UFWDA is suing SUWA into bankruptcy", but there's never a cause of action that actually allows us to sue environmental groups directly. 

Here's hoping that our supporters react the way you said - "How can I contribute?"

Thanks
Carla

Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Todd Ockert on March 29, 2007, 01:29:52 pm
Carla

Thanks for posting this list.  Most I have heard of, and watch their web sites all the time to see what they are up too.

A couple of the others I have not heard of, and have not come up on google searches.

They will now be on my watch list, and possibly try to get on their mailing list to see what they are asking, or wanting of their members.

Thanks

Todd
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 29, 2007, 02:07:06 pm
There is a misspelling on one name.

Wildlands Center for the Prevention of Roads.

Their focus in the northern Rockies from Colorado through Montana.

They do publish a monthly e-news "Skidmarks". 

One organization not listed that is a good one to watch is the Natural Resources Defense Council.  That is the main litigation arm of the Sierra Club.  They do distribute an infrequent informational note.

You can subscribe to their newsletter at:  http://www.nrdc.org

They do have "alerts" that are sent out by specific areas.

Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 29, 2007, 04:31:17 pm
I would have liked to said
"UFWDA is suing SUWA into bankruptcy", but there's never a cause of action that actually allows us to sue environmental groups directly. 

This was just an example since I wasn't up for re-typing the lengthy post that was eaten by the forum.  What I'm trying to get across is how to connect emotionally with potential members when your length of contact can be as short as 3-5 seconds.  It takes very specific actions to make that connection with the VAST majority of people.  A few will understand the benefit right away.  A few more will understand if you can get 5 minutes with them to talk about the threat and issues.  The other 99% of people will say, "thanks, sounds great, I'm going wheeling now."

I must not be explaining this correctly.  These responses remind me of my initial conversations with U4WDA reps when they wanted my club to join.

Me: "What does U4WDA do?"

U4WDA: "We represent all 4x4 users in Utah!"

Me: "Great, how do you do that?"

U4WDA: "Well, we work very hard and are involved in a lot of issues."

Me: "Great, what specifically have you done?  What are you involved in right now?"

U4WDA: "Well, we provide a unified front for 4x4 users!"

Me: "Great, exactly how do you do that?  Do you have lawyers on staff?  Are you organizing monthly service projects?  What exactly are you doing?"

U4WDA: "Well, we're doing a lot.  We're representing 4x4 users across the state."

Me: "OK, well I'll come to a meeting and try to figure that out."

Only my stubborness kept me involved until I could actually decipher what the hell they were trying to talk about, then I realized that 98% of it was sales-speak that no one had ever spent time thinking about.  Now I know what's going on.  I know the value of what UFWDA is doing, but there was a little learning curve to conquer before I understood the threat, how we're fighting it, and what we need in the future.  We don't have that kind of time with most average 4x4 users.  We need to hit them with a 10 second pitch that leaves no doubt that they should get involved.

Tangible, visible, high-profile on-the-ground work = More community and user involvement

For example, I am working on something here to connect with the 4x4 users in the Salt Lake Valley (which is probably 80% of users in the state).  I can't go into details on an open forum.  How can I explain this example?  I can't really do that in an open forum.  Sorry, typing as I'm thinking.  The curse of 80+ wpm.  The gist is that at the end we can say, "U4WDA was solely responsible for saving Trail X, re-opening Trail Y, and legalizing Trail Z."  Trails X, Y, and Z are popular trails very near to the SL Valley.  Now, that opens wallets.  How we came to be able to make the statement is irrelevant.  The fact that we can talk about Trails X, Y, and Z are what matters.  Users are emotionally connected to these trails as they might be the only technical routes within 150 miles of their house.

What everyone is adding to this discussion is great.  The points are excellent.  What I'm talking about is drilling that down into very narrow and focused actions that have affected the users in a narrow locale.

I've got one I'll give you.  There is a trail here that could be re-opened with some legal muscle.  It's on FS property.  A private land owner held a piece of property that this 100 year old trail crossed (the beginning and end have always been on public FS land).  The private land owner (very prominant organization in Utah) requested that the road be closed.  It was.  The FS did a land swap and acquired the small piece of property in question last year.  Prime candidate for re-opening.  Because I don't have a fortune for legal assistance, I'm working on a long-term plan to re-open this road.  If it's even successful, it will take 3-4 years.  If UFWDA was able to re-open it through legal action (or whatever), then we can go to shows, events, rides, businesses, street-corners, etc and say, "UFWDA opened Trail Q."  Bam, 1500 new U4WDA members and 2500 individual UFWDA memberships.

Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: 9ersgirl on March 29, 2007, 05:41:57 pm
Are you asking for legal assistance from UFWDA.  If you are, Please contact Carla Boucher for Guidance


Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Todd Ockert on March 30, 2007, 12:31:38 am
Somehow we need to sell to one of the 5 sense's to get people to buy into United.
Sight, hearing, smelling, touch and tasting are what we need to sell to somehow. 

Obviously, if we loose access to the trail, we will no longer be able to smell the clean air, hear the birds, touch the trees except for the ones at the park down the street, taste the fresh air with a slight seasoning of dust, or see the wild animals. 

I will get more indepth on this later if anyone wants it.

I think we all have some great ideas that need to be consolidated and put into one big pile. 
Because every person is different, what it takes to get me excited about keeping trails open is different than for someone else. 

Todd
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 30, 2007, 01:21:36 am
Sounds like a "brainstorming" session.....

Todd, you have head Del's rant and you have hear mine.

Basically, we are a couple of old guys with a message.  How do we translate that into a new generation language???

There exists knowledge and widom. There is a generation gap. How do we cross the "next meridian" and bring the message to the younger generation in terms they understand???

We want to perserve opportunity.  How do we preserve opportunity?  How do we get people to become involved?

There are several layers of involvment. How many people are wiling to become involved?

There are resources to train you in what you should know to become involved.

The resources are there. Who wants to partake????

Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Todd Ockert on March 30, 2007, 10:24:46 am
John

You are right about us being a bunch of old guys with a message.  I wish I had the answer to that million dollar question?
How many times do we go to an event, and the chair and all the others involved with organizing it, are the older members in the clubs?  The more these events go on, the same people are organizing them.  How do we get the younger members of our clubs involved to lead?  I think this may be a by-product of our society today.  We are having problems in the Military with getting the younger ones to lead.  They want to be friends and not leaders. 
Leading is a tough job!  Because if things go good, you may not get all the recognition for having a good event, and if things go bad, people are quick to point the finger and blame you. 
I have been in a leadership position in the Navy for over 15 years.  Leadership is different in the military then with a group of volunteers.  Most of us here can attest to that.  With the volunteers, we as leaders need to take care of our volunteers, and groom them into leaders also.  Some are born leaders, and others we will have to take under our wing, and show or give them guidance.
I think in this process, we can start to show others that it is not hard to be a leader.  You as a leader need to know when to praise someone, and when to chew some butt, and how to do both effectively. 

Going back to Johns other statement, about how to get to the younger (ME) generation.  They want to know what is in it for ME!
What do I get out of my involveMEnt here? 
Do we find a catchy phrase that will catch their attention with some nice posters?  Wish I had the answer and could get more people involved and participating. 
I have friends into Quads and Dirt bikes, that are not associated with any group.  I ask them what are they going to do when all the trails are closed, where will they ride?  They look at me with the deer in the head lights, and tell me that will never happen.  If they are not involved, their favorite area will become closed. 
How do we get these people involved?  Show them the wins we have had in different areas.

We all could go on and on about this issue. 
Any good ideas, please post them up so we all can make comments about them.  We need ideas, and if we combine the things that are working good for some in different areas, we all can try the different methods.

Thanks

Todd
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 30, 2007, 03:41:53 pm
Going back to Johns other statement, about how to get to the younger (ME) generation.  They want to know what is in it for ME!
What do I get out of my involveMEnt here?

Ok, now we're connecting.  This is what I'm talking about.

Let's backtrack.

In reference to John's comment about how the resources to get involved (training, documentation, etc) are available if it is sought after, that's where the cycle ends for me.  The cycle begins by just piquing the interest, planting the seed, and getting a donation (membership).  Once they're on your membership roster and you're sending them materials, we hope that their interest will mature to the point where they will seek out the resources John has mentioned and become working-volunteers and leaders.  Getting them to that point is a whole other problem, and what I'm focusing on in this discussion is that initial capture.  That initial spark that makes them aware of the war being waged against motorized access.

Now back to the "Me" generation.  This is what I've been trying to get at.  Saying "it's the right thing to do" doesn't work on this generation.  Saying, "get a free ps3 game with every membership" is what works (just an example).

We've all seen it.  The same people who won't give a $50 donation will pay $250 to participate in a large scale organized run.  The same people who won't donate $1 will buy a $5 raffle ticket to win an '07 Rubicon.

Is this making sense, or am I screaming at the wall?

On to another point brought up (geez, I wish this freebie forum had multi-quote capabilities) about getting younger people involved.  I've noticed that there's an "old-boys culture" at many organizations and clubs that prohibits new, young volunteers from getting involved.  My own experience of getting involved is a sad story of elitism and exclusion.  Only my stubborness kept me into it until I could break into the "old-boys network."  Unfortunately, most younger volunteers won't go through that, and it's a damn shame.  When volunteers show up, and they are greeted with comments like, "That's nothing new, we already tried that idea and it was a disaster, we won't be doing that again," or, "You just don't know how things work,"  It's no wonder we're where we are.  Since becoming President of U4WDA, my number one priority is attracting new working-volunteers to the board of directors.  That starts with having an open culture that nurtures new ideas instead of just squashing them.

Do we find a catchy phrase that will catch their attention with some nice posters?  Wish I had the answer and could get more people involved and participating. 
I have friends into Quads and Dirt bikes, that are not associated with any group.  I ask them what are they going to do when all the trails are closed, where will they ride?  They look at me with the deer in the head lights, and tell me that will never happen.  If they are not involved, their favorite area will become closed. 
How do we get these people involved?  Show them the wins we have had in different areas.

We all could go on and on about this issue. 
Any good ideas, please post them up so we all can make comments about them.  We need ideas, and if we combine the things that are working good for some in different areas, we all can try the different methods.

Thanks

Todd

Quote
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 30, 2007, 03:46:51 pm
Are you asking for legal assistance from UFWDA.  If you are, Please contact Carla Boucher for Guidance

No, I was simply offering an example.

I want to re-open this road through mutual benefit and cooperation with the FS.  It'll take longer, but I want to show people it can be done.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Todd Ockert on March 30, 2007, 09:36:16 pm
Steve

I think that we have to somehow who the older generation that is running the clubs and organizations that the younger generation can lead if given a chance. 
But when someone says that we have tried that before, and it does not work, the new guys need to pass on that I am different, and possibly have a different leadership style possibly then the other individual that did that event/trail or work weekend. 

I was lucky, in that one of our club leaders was prior military, and we think alike in a lot of ways in what the club should be doing, or the direction we need to go.  So he brought me in, and has allowed me to lead, and gain a leadership position.  The old generation in my club respects him, and they allowed him to let me have the raines on some things.  I am in the middle of the road as far as age goes within my club.  We have guys from the guys that created the club to our newest members who are in their early 20's. 

We also have to get the older generation to think out of the box.  Sometimes they have been burned by another club or members of another club, and will not make amends.  We have that issue within our club and trying to work with another club to help them open trails in the Sierra's. 

It is tough, and guys like me are not afraid to allow some of the younger guys take the lead, and give guidance where needed.  But I learned that from being in the military and that is the way we lead.   
It is tough to get new members to join, because like we have comment, they want to know what is in it for them.  I wish I had a good answer on how to get them to join and keep coming in to our clubs to help out. 
We have isolated ourselves somewhat, and need to find a way to work with the other groups (Dirt Bikers, Quads, hunters, miners) to keep our public lands open. 
I am also a miner, and work some of our public lands, and some of the same fights are going on there. 
I think United could be a good fit for all of the seperate groups to join forces and fight for public land access.
But that is a whole new thread and problem also.

Todd
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: kf6zpl on March 30, 2007, 10:17:10 pm
Quote
Now back to the "Me" generation.  This is what I've been trying to get at.  Saying "it's the right thing to do" doesn't work on this generation.  Saying, "get a free ps3 game with every membership" is what works (just an example).

I would like to offer an observation on this statement.  There are a number of 'younger' people becoming involved with public service events.  Pushing "it's the rigth thing to do" does have a value.

What is necessary is to connect the "right thing to do" do a point of interest for the individual.  It is finding out what the motivational factore is that will trigger the desire for them to internalize and step up.

Quote
On to another point brought up (geez, I wish this freebie forum had multi-quote capabilities) about getting younger people involved.  I've noticed that there's an "old-boys culture" at many organizations and clubs that prohibits new, young volunteers from getting involved.  My own experience of getting involved is a sad story of elitism and exclusion.  Only my stubborness kept me into it until I could break into the "old-boys network."  Unfortunately, most younger volunteers won't go through that, and it's a damn shame.  When volunteers show up, and they are greeted with comments like, "That's nothing new, we already tried that idea and it was a disaster, we won't be doing that again," or, "You just don't know how things work,"  It's no wonder we're where we are.  Since becoming President of U4WDA, my number one priority is attracting new working-volunteers to the board of directors.  That starts with having an open culture that nurtures new ideas instead of just squashing them.

One point i have noticed with the younger people, they want to be involved but often are reluctant to step forward.  is it the "old-boys" culture that is holding them back? or, is it lack of mentoring to encourage their participation???

I can relate to Steve's experience of 'elitism and exclusion'.  It is not only in volunteer organizations, it is within the workplace.

I have seen the same "great idea" fail in one instance and thrive in a different instance.  Part of the success of any idea is the committment of the people presenting the idea and the abiity to describe it in terms that can be understood.

One challenge of getting people involved is creating a feeling that it is important for them to be involved.  Okay, it is back to "what's in it for me?"

So, perhaps there are some others with ideas????
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Steve Jackson on March 31, 2007, 12:56:41 am
I would like to offer an observation on this statement.  There are a number of 'younger' people becoming involved with public service events.  Pushing "it's the rigth thing to do" does have a value.

I'd bait 'em with free swag, and hook 'em with "do the right thing."  Because it really is the right thing.  Somedays I want to quict spending spare time working for our cause, and use that time to go wheeling and exploring the west, starting with all of Utah of course.  We need a way to better connect with more people...which I had hoped my suggestions would set off additional suggestions.

What is necessary is to connect the "right thing to do" do a point of interest for the individual.  It is finding out what the motivational factore is that will trigger the desire for them to internalize and step up.

One point i have noticed with the younger people, they want to be involved but often are reluctant to step forward.  is it the "old-boys" culture that is holding them back? or, is it lack of mentoring to encourage their participation???

I'd say it's some of each.  I'd like to institute a mentoring program.  It would be a great method to increase accountability and transfer of knowledge.  Cultivating new working-volunteers is vital.  The 4x4 community needs more of them.


I can relate to Steve's experience of 'elitism and exclusion'.  It is not only in volunteer organizations, it is within the workplace.

Yup, and it's worse in the workplace because your livelihood is involved.  It's out there.

One challenge of getting people involved is creating a feeling that it is important for them to be involved.  Okay, it is back to "what's in it for me?"

Topic Summary
Posted on: March 30, 2007, 11:17:10 pmPosted by: John Stewart 
Insert Quote
Quote
Now back to the "Me" generation.  This is what I've been trying to get at.  Saying "it's the right thing to do" doesn't work on this generation.  Saying, "get a free ps3 game with every membership" is what works (just an example).

I would like to offer an observation on this statement.  There are a number of 'younger' people becoming involved with public service events.  Pushing "it's the rigth thing to do" does have a value.

What is necessary is to connect the "right thing to do" do a point of interest for the individual.  It is finding out what the motivational factore is that will trigger the desire for them to internalize and step up.


Quote
On to another point brought up (geez, I wish this freebie forum had multi-quote capabilities) about getting younger people involved.  I've noticed that there's an "old-boys culture" at many organizations and clubs that prohibits new, young volunteers from getting involved.  My own experience of getting involved is a sad story of elitism and exclusion.  Only my stubborness kept me into it until I could break into the "old-boys network."  Unfortunately, most younger volunteers won't go through that, and it's a damn shame.  When volunteers show up, and they are greeted with comments like, "That's nothing new, we already tried that idea and it was a disaster, we won't be doing that again," or, "You just don't know how things work,"  It's no wonder we're where we are.  Since becoming President of U4WDA, my number one priority is attracting new working-volunteers to the board of directors.  That starts with having an open culture that nurtures new ideas instead of just squashing them.

One point i have noticed with the younger people, they want to be involved but often are reluctant to step forward.  is it the "old-boys" culture that is holding them back? or, is it lack of mentoring to encourage their participation???

I can relate to Steve's experience of 'elitism and exclusion'.  It is not only in volunteer organizations, it is within the workplace.

I have seen the same "great idea" fail in one instance and thrive in a different instance.  Part of the success of any idea is the committment of the people presenting the idea and the abiity to describe it in terms that can be understood.

One challenge of getting people involved is creating a feeling that it is important for them to be involved.  Okay, it is back to "what's in it for me?"

So, perhaps there are some others with ideas?


Yes, I'd like to hear aoubt other ideas.

I still think, small, tactical strikes of legal power in high-profile opportunities to generate buzz and visibility are good for attracting members.  I'll have to PM the strategies I've come up with, but they should be discussed outside of a public forum.
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Keith Holman on March 31, 2007, 11:21:48 am
Around here, the public schools have a requirement for "volunteer" public service for HS graduation. While that program has its supporters and detractors, it exists. Quite frequently, the students could use some assistance in getting those hours in. It's a possible source of volunteers and a chance to get new involvement that's worth looking into.
College admissions frequently like to see service or involvement on the applications. Another opportunity to "grab 'em while they are young".
Title: Re: Supporting United
Post by: Trish Dinsmore on July 25, 2007, 05:16:14 am
as promised:

I conducted a survey, of sorts, to ascertain the general feel of the four wheel drive community on the proposed changes to United’s By Laws and operating structure.  I had hoped to gain a prospective on the best way to support the United Four Wheel Drive Assoication.
Out of thirty two clubs/organizations/associations contacted only 15 responded.
5 support the United Four Wheel drive Assoication with 100% membership,
3 support United with $1000 flat membership rate
6 support United with $100 flat membership recognition.
1 responder stated that they were not renewing their membership with United.
Of the 5 groups that support United with 100% membership only 2 submitted membership at the current organization rate of $15 per member.  The other 3 stated they paid $10 per member.
One of the 3 groups that support United with a flat fee of $1000 reported that its members could join United for $10 per member.
     Basically- mass confusion.  No one seems to be on the same page.  United has some serious management issues. The financial difficulties United is facing along with membership issues and communication issues are very troubling.
  From my survey, I see a community of four wheelers looking for guidance and leadership, a community ready to provide financial support.  I believe that in order for United to be our answer; United has to evolve to better meet our needs.  I hope to see change in the near future; the four wheel drive community needs it.

Trish Dinsmore